Transcript | News 24 AM Agenda | 5 August 2026

LAURA JAYES: I want to go to Shadow Defence Minister James Paterson now. He joins me from our Melbourne studio. James, when all is said and done, arguing that you need more power, that is IBAC. Is that really the outcome that's the best for the state?  

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, the IBAC report tabled finally today after eight years, longer than World War II, lifts the lid on the corrupt culture at the heart of the Victorian Labor government. It's a culture that started under Daniel Andrews, it continued under Jacinta Allan, and it remains alive today under Ben Carroll. Let's remember the only reason why there aren't findings of corrupt conduct against the government ministers and senior public servants is because the Andrews, Allan and Carroll governments have refused to give IBAC the powers they say they need to tackle corruption in Victoria. So Ben Carroll was the Deputy Premier that sat around the cabinet table under these premiers that refused to provide IBAC with those powers, and the question must be asked, why didn't Ben Carroll want IBAC to have the powers that they needed to expose corruption? What is it that he wanted to hide?  

JAYES: What do you think IBAC would have uncovered if that definition of corruption was expanded?  

PATERSON: Well, I think it's important to note in the IBAC report, a senior public servant in the Department of Premier and Cabinet, Mr Tony Bates, is named throughout and found to have contravened government policies, procedures and the code of conduct. Mr Bates was appointed as the Secretary of the Department of Education when Ben Carroll was the Education Minister. He was named as far back as 2021 in investigations by The Age as a person of interest to IBAC. So what did Ben Carroll know about Tony Bates' involvement in these negotiations? When did he know it and what did he do about it? And now that he's been publicly named in this report as having contravened policies, procedures and the code of conduct, will he be sacked by the Premier? I mean, these are serious questions which he has to answer today.  

JAYES: But what's corrupt or corrupt conduct, James? I mean, what's an undisclosed backroom deal actually mean?  

PATERSON: Well Laura it's not normal for public sector EBA negotiations to be conducted in rooms booked in a hotel. It's not normal for champagne to be broken out and photos to be taken and sent to the Premier. It's not normal for a Labor Senator at the time who was not a government minister to attend these negotiations and participate in them in some way. Corruption is when you put sectional interest ahead of the public interest. And Victorian Labor does this time and time again. They put the CFMEU's interest ahead of Victorian taxpayers. They put the UFU's interests ahead of the Country Fire Authority and firefighters, and they do it time and again. And it goes to the heart of their business model in Victoria, which is they win power and hand public money over to their friends and allies who support them to retain that power in the union movement. That is corrupt, and the only way to fix that corruption is to get rid of this government in November.  

JAYES: OK, so I want to just go to what Peter Marshall had to say, because this report is certainly damning, more damning to the Andrews government than it is to Peter Marshall personally. IBAC did not find that Peter Marshall committed corrupt conduct, nor did it substantiate a central allegation that he blackmailed Daniel Andrews or other ministers. It did find that he enjoyed extraordinary and inappropriate access to the highest levels of government. I put it to you, James, is that Peter Marshall's fault? I mean, if he enjoys, the words are, extraordinary and inappropriate access to the highest levels of government, that is an indictment on the Labor government, on Daniel Andrews, on his ministers, is it not?  

PATERSON: It certainly is an indictment on Victorian Labor, from Daniel Andrews onward and including ministers who continue to sit around the cabinet table today who participated in denying IBAC the powers it needed to get to the bottom of this, and denying IBAC the powers needed to wrap this up in a timely way. They allowed the UFU to use the court system to delay handing down this report for years when it should have been public many years ago. So yes, it reflects incredibly badly on Victorian Labor. I don't think it casts Peter Marshall or the UFU in a good light, but what it does reveal is someone like the UFU, who controls votes at a Labor conference, who's a major donor to the Labor Party, who publicly campaigned for Labor candidates and the election of the Andrews government, holds leverage over the Labor party, just like the CFMEU holds leverage over the Labor party, just like the ETU holds leverage over Labor party. And they use that leverage to extract taxpayers' money, which we now know amounts to $15 billion on the Big Build sites alone that went to organised crime, bikies and the CFMEU. And so this is why corruption is at the heart of this government and the only way to get rid of them is to vote for Jess Wilson and the Liberals and Nationals in November.  

JAYES: There's an IBAC report on the Firefighters' EBA. Is this related, is this what we've just seen, the enterprise bargaining agreement that we saw, so that's at the heart of it right, so it was this Labor government giving power to one union over another.  

PATERSON: That's right and remember this was in 2016 and it coincided with the effective demolition of the CFA, the Country Fire Authority, in much of Victoria because the UFU doesn't like volunteer firefighters because they can't be unionised and so they sought to use their power over Labor to push them out of the fringes of Melbourne well into the regional areas, to disadvantage them and clearly they have been disadvantaged. Victorians remember this, they remember it well and I think they're going to punish the government for it.  

JAYES: Got it. Thank you, James. I just wanted to bring up one final thing before I ask you about this far left terrorism in your state, and that is the recommendations from IBAC, if we could just bring them up on the screen. Strengthen the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Create a ministerial handbook and better ethics training for Labor MPs. I mean, really? They're the recommendations?  

PATERSON: Yeah, I'm not sure that ethics training is going to fix what is rotten at the heart of this government. This is a government which knowingly and willingly handed over taxpayers' money to organised criminals and bikies, that allowed people to be intimidated and assaulted on building sites, that allowed drugs to be dealt on building sites, that allowed strippers to be hired on building sites. I'm not sure ethics training's going to fix what's at the heart of this government, the only thing that will fix it is a real royal commission, not a pretend royal commission. The only thing that will fix it is giving IBAC the follow-the-money powers they've been asking for and the changing of the definition of corruption that they've been asking for that Ben Carroll and his colleagues have been refusing. And I don't think Ben Carroll can or will do those things, certainly not in a timely or genuine way, because it goes to the heart of Labor's business model in Victoria, and the only people that can break that business model is a different government.  

JAYES: What does it say about IBAC when it's taken eight years, eight million dollars, to come up with better ethics training?  

PATERSON: Well, to be fair to IBAC, they've been fought every step of the way by the UFU, who has taken them to court to prevent them from publishing this report. And Peter Marshall was previously asked about whether he was the party that had taken IBAC to court to prevent it from being published before he was named. And he said he wasn't. He said he wasn't party to it. So, I mean, that reveals a lot about Peter Marshall. He's not someone who should be having dealings with any government. And I think one of the things Ben Carroll should do today is say that, apart from dealing with his Secretary of his Education Department, is also to say that his government will refuse to deal with Peter Marshall and the UFU while ever he runs the UFU.  

JAYES: OK, before I let you go, James, it has been quite a big morning. I want to ask you about this attack, this arson attack against a defence company that has now been declared as a terror attack by a far left wing group. It is my understanding that police are closing in rapidly on these people. But what does it say about the motivation here?  

PATERSON: Well, I welcome the fact that police are investigating this and taking it as seriously as they are, and I hope they're successful in identifying the people responsible and that they're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But I think we have had a growing instance of left-wing extremism in our country, particularly over the last two years and particularly agitated by the pro-Palestinian movement in Australia that seeks to target a business in Melbourne as being somehow responsible for events in Gaza on the other side of the world. This is bizarre and completely inappropriate, and it is arguably the most serious instance of left-wing terrorism in our country since the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in 1978. It's not something we want to see any more of, and I hope police and their intelligence partners are able to get on top of this.  

JAYES: James Paterson, great to have you on the program, especially today, thanks so much.  

PATERSON: Thanks, Laura. Cheers. 

ENDS 

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