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Transcripts
September 17, 2025
SHARRI MARKSON: Sussan Ley has delivered her first major economic speech today, accusing Labor of reckless spending, warning of a $1 trillion debt spiral and blasting taxpayer handouts
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HON SUSSAN LEY MP: By dependency, I mean the growing expectation that government will provide for every need and solve every problem by spending more. We believe government support should be a safety net, not a hammock. That means, for example, we should not be paying benefits to high income households.
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SHARRI MARKSON: And Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson joins me now. James, good to see you again. Now, Sussan Ley spoke about moving Australia from dependency to empowerment. Now the message is absolutely right. But how will you sell this electorally? Isn't it very difficult to convince Australians who are struggling to pay their bills?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Sharri, in politics, the first and most important thing to work at is what is in the national interest: what do we need to do? And then to work out how to sell it. And the truth is, we are on an unsustainable trajectory with our public finances that is going to impoverish future generations and leave them an enormous debt burden that they have not benefited from. And so we want to do the right thing by that generation. We want to step up and acknowledge the problems. Now, there will be some tough conversations that will have to happen. There will be some tough choices that have to be made. But we can't just allow our country to continue to go along this path; otherwise, we will all suffer. And so Sussan has called this out today, and she said that the spending trajectory that the Albanese government and Jim Chalmers have put us on must be arrested. We must live within our means, and we must aim to deliver budget surpluses and pay down that debt again.
SHARRI MARKSON: The issue is that when it comes time to the election and Labor's promising to pay people's HECS debt and, you know, free this and that, when the Coalition was in that position before the last election, you agreed with all of the spending items because it would have been difficult, impossible to oppose them. So, you know, again, won't it wedge you if you say that we need to cut spending, we're not going to give free HECS debt. How will you ever get back into government?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: One of the wisest observations, one of your previous guests, Michael Kroger, makes often is that the Liberal Party never wins auction politics, and what he means by that is if it's a bid on who can be more generous, the Liberal Party loses the election. If instead it's a contest about who can build a stronger economy and who can deliver a stronger budget, and who can reduce taxes more than that is a conversation that we can win and we have won in the past. And I think the lesson from the last election is, we do need to have the courage of our convictions. We do need to set out differences between ourselves and the government, and one of the best areas to do that is putting our fiscal house in order and getting us back onto a sustainable trajectory, because this government has added tens of billions of dollars of recurrent spending without any plan to pay for it. And the Prime Minister has flagged they are going to do even more of it by, for example, having un-means-tested universal childcare subsidies. So someone on $1 million a year would have their childcare subsidised. Now that might be a nice thing to have, but in an environment where we can't pay for what our current expenses are, it's just not responsible.
SHARRI MARKSON: I spoke a moment ago about Albanese failing to sign two Pacific security pacts, despite Australia giving hundreds of millions of dollars to PNG. Is this a humiliating failure for the Prime Minister?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Sharri, I really hope this is just a short-term embarrassment. And it's about a delay and not something not proceeding at all. But I do fear that it may be worse than that. That it's more dire than that. Because the Prime Minister is now zero from two. He failed not just in Vanuatu, but also in PNG to secure these agreements, which his government had been briefing the media for weeks were in the bag. So it's certainly an embarrassing moment, but I hope in the national interest and for the sake of our country, in the strategic environment that we find ourselves in, that they can pull this out of the fire and secure this agreement just a little bit later.
SHARRI MARKSON: Andrew Hastie has doubled down on his threat to quit the frontbench if the party adopts the net zero by 2050 policy. James, you're close to Andrew Hastie. You're both on the right of the Liberal Party. Just to be absolutely clear. Do you agree with him on net zero?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Andrew is my very good friend, as you know, Sharri. And I've taken a position on this debate that, as a member of the Shadow Cabinet who has the opportunity to have a say through our party processes, I'm not going to be canvassing my personal views publicly. What I can say is, I think there's a high degree of unanimity among the Coalition that, of course, we accept our responsibility to reduce emissions - as every Liberal leader since John Howard has committed us to. But that we would never sign Australia up to an unacceptable cost of reducing those emissions. And right now, Labor is subjecting Australia to that unacceptable cost. They have mismanaged the transition in such a...
SHARRI MARKSON: So sorry to interrupt you. So Michaelia Cash was on the show last night, and she said something very similar. But what is the actual position then? Is it, yes, you're going to agree to net zero, or you're not going to agree to it?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Sharri, as you know, we haven't resolved that position yet, and we're working through that process. And I hope in good time we'll be able to share that with you and your viewers. But I think we shouldn't lose sight of the spectacular failure on Labor's watch, because not only are prices being driven up, not only is our system becoming less reliable, but they've also actually failed to reduce emissions. In fact, Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and Malcolm Turnbull all reduced emissions more than Anthony Albanese has done despite his rhetoric on this issue. So it's really a trifecta of failure from the government. We must do better, and we accept our responsibility to articulate that very soon to the Australian public.
SHARRI MARKSON: Just quickly, before you go, I'd like to get your view on this moral confusion that we've seen even from Fatima Payman. I'm going to play her comments later in the show, but Fatima Payman and others in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I was really disappointed and shocked to see Senator Payman's comments this afternoon. She and I obviously have very different world views, but I still would not have thought that she would be someone who would make light of a political assassination, of someone else's death. I really hope she reflects on that and apologises. None of us in public life should ever make light of a political assassination or murder, and those that do so really do deserve to suffer the consequences of their behaviour. And I think the judgment will be swift, and it will be harsh.
SHARRI MARKSON: All right. James Paterson, always terrific to have you on the show. Thank you so much.
ENDS