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Transcripts
August 12, 2025
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CHRIS KENNY: Let me go to Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson. Good to speak to you, James. Got to get your thoughts on this recognition and what happens in the future, because your leader today, Sussan Ley, has said that a Coalition government would overturn this, would unrecognise any state of Palestine at that time. How would you expect that to unfold?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Chris, there is no state of Palestine and the Australian government under the Prime Minister recognising a state of Palestine doesn't create a state of Palestine. A state of Palestinians will only be created when the Israelis and the Palestinians come to an agreement. And that is why for 30 years, it's been the bipartisan policy of the Australian government to only recognise a Palestinian state as an endpoint of a peace process and not along the journey. Right now, we don't even have two parties that are engaged in talks or willing to engage in talks. And this premature recognition is further incentive for both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas to refuse to sit down and negotiate with Israel because they are getting the thing that they want from countries like Australia, which is recognition without conditions. Let's be clear, this is not a deft act of international diplomacy from the Prime Minister - it is a desperate act of domestic politics. And he is only doing it because he's spooked by 90,000 people walking across the Sydney Harbour Bridge. He himself outlined two weeks ago on Insiders many good reasons why we should not do this. Nothing has changed in two weeks except the Prime Minister has gone weak and wobbly at the knees.
CHRIS KENNY: No, you're absolutely right, in three years and six years' time, there will be no Palestinian states. It will just be a matter of changing our position at the United Nations. Now, as I outlined there, we are now abandoning the Israeli and American position. If that were to unfold all those years down the track, we would be realigning ourselves with both of those countries, especially our key ally in the U.S. How serious do you think the damage is right now with the U.S. alliance? How sternly would Washington be viewing Australia's actions?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, of course, Australia's foreign policy is a matter for Australia, and we should decide it consistent with our own national interest, regardless of what our friends or allies might say. But the problem with this decision in this instance is it's not the only source of irritation in the bilateral relationship with the United States. It comes alongside the Prime Minister's pathetic attempts to meet with President Trump, non-existent attempts to make with President Trump. We're now 280 days on from his election as President, and the Prime Minister's made no meaningful attempt to go and see him, and disputes about things like defence spending, which our own best experts tell us, and our American friends, is not adequate to meet the challenges at the moment. So cumulatively, all of these things, I think, are adding up to a really poor bilateral relationship with our most important security partner. And I fear that under the Prime Minister's watch and Foreign Minister Penny Wong's watch, this is only going to get worse before it gets better.
CHRIS KENNY: I've got to show you something the Prime Minister said yesterday, which staggered me, which really shocked me and disappointed me. I'm surprised it hasn't got more of a backlash, but he refers to terrorists. This would be including suicide bombers as martyrs. Here's Anthony Albanese.
[CLIP START]
PRIME MINISTER ANTHONY ALBANESE: It is pledged to abolish the system of payments to the families of prisoners and martyrs.
[CLIP ENDS]
CHRIS KENNY: Are you surprised? Give me your thoughts on him adopting that language.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That is a very good pick up, Chris. That is an appalling mistake, I hope, from the Prime Minister, adopting the language of terrorists by describing a suicide bomber as a martyr. Of course, that is what the Palestinian Authority calls people who get on school buses and blow themselves to smithereens and take Israeli and Jewish children with them. And no Australian Prime Minister should endorse or use language like that. We should call it for what it is. The Palestinian Authority pays money to the families of terrorists after they kill Israelis. It's one of the many reasons why we should not recognise a Palestinian state. And a flimsy promise of reform from Mahmoud Abbas, who is 20 years into his first four-year term, should be treated with the contempt that it should naturally carry, but the Prime Minister is apparently convinced he's sincere and will follow through.
CHRIS KENNY: I want to give you a quick hit on the economy, but just before we do, there's one other international issue I'm keen to get your thoughts on. This unfolded in the South China Sea. This is two Chinese vessels pursuing a Filipino vessel, crashing into each other. Does this demonstrate for us what a high-stakes situation it is in those waters?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It does, Chris, and the PRC, whether it's the Coast Guard or their Navy, has been engaged in incredibly reckless and risky behaviour in the South China Sea, trying to intimidate our friend, the Philippines, and it was only a matter of time before it ended in tragedy. In this instance, it appears to be a friendly fire incident on their own naval officers, but it very easily could have been injury or death to Philippine naval officers as well. Australia must stand shoulder to shoulder with the Philippines in helping them defend their maritime sovereignty and making clear that this is reckless and unacceptable conduct from the People's Liberation Army Navy and the Chinese Coast Guard.
CHRIS KENNY: And more in keeping with your economic portfolio, interest rates down again today. Are we starting to see the cost of living ease?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I wish we were, Chris, but if you're an average mortgage holder with a $600,000 loan, you save $100 from these interest rate cuts, but you're paying $1,800 more than you were three years ago when this government came to power because there's been 12 interest rate rises on their watch and only three interest rate cuts. And so you're still far, far worse off than you were before this government was elected. And that's before we even contemplate your electricity bill, or your grocery bill, or your insurance, or so many other cost of living pressures that Australian families are facing. The truth is this government has no plan to get our economy back on track, nor does it have any plan for the economy moving again with productivity growth, and the RBA has called that out by lowering their forecast for productivity growth going forward to an anaemic 0.7%, which is crisis levels of low productivity growth.
CHRIS KENNY: Always good to talk to you, James. Thanks very much.
ENDS