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Transcripts
August 28, 2025
PETER STEFANOVIC: ASIO is investigating whether more attacks are linked to Iran, including the former home of the Jewish leader Alex Ryvchin. Joining us live now is the Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson. James, good to see you today. There's a lot to squeeze in here, but I want to start here. Does it seem likely now that Iran was involved in these extra attacks?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Pete, I've not been briefed on this, so I want to be careful about speculating, but it is concerning to me that the government and ASIO have not yet been able to rule out that Iran is behind further attacks, including that on Alex Ryvchin's former home. If it is confirmed subsequently that Iran was targeting the homes of individual Jewish community leaders, that makes what is already a very serious domestic security crisis with a shocking international dimension, an even more serious one. And it would have to demand even further action from the Albanese government than what they have done already, which we've welcomed, including kicking out the ambassador and banning the IRGC as a terrorist organisation.
PETER STEFANOVIC: There had been some criticism coming from the Coalition yesterday about Labor's time that it took to declaring the IRGC a terror group and according to the papers this morning James, Labor wanted to do it in the first 12 months of its first term but it was nixed because laws as they stand don't allow a group connected to a government to be listed. Is that right?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: The problem with that story, Peter, is that on three occasions in the last term, in my former capacity as Shadow Minister for Home Affairs, I wrote to the government, including the Home Affairs Minister, Clare O'Neil, on behalf of the opposition and offered bipartisan support to change the law to allow organisations like the IRGC to be listed. The government could have taken up our offer, they could have legislated this, and the IRGC could have been prescribed as a terrorist organisation well before any of this happened. And there was a very good reason to do so from at least February 2023 onwards, when the then Home Affairs Minister, Clare O'Neil, publicly attributed an act of foreign interference in Australia to Iran, which, of course, would have been carried out at the behest of the IRGC. We knew they were intervening in our domestic politics. We knew that they were surveilling Iranian dissident communities and diaspora communities. That was reason enough to list them, and we shouldn't have required any further evidence to do so.
PETER STEFANOVIC: I would add, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but we've declared Hezbollah a terror group, haven't we? And that's connected to the Lebanese government.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, exactly, and there are other examples like that. In fact, Hezbollah was listed as a terrorist organisation in its entirety for the first time on my watch as Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence Chair. And many of the arguments made against it were, well, Hezbollah is sort of part of the Lebanese state, and they are involved in the delivery of welfare services. We listed Hamas as a terrorist organisation for the first time in its entirety on my watch as PJCIS chair. Again, people said, well, Hamas is the governing entity of Gaza. They won an election in Gaza. How can we list them? We did. We were not deterred by any technicality from doing what was in Australia's national interest. And it was in Australia's national interest to list the IRGC. I'm glad that the Albanese government has finally come to that conclusion, but it did not need to have taken this long.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay so the Prime Minister, he denied this at the Bush Summit yesterday in Wagga Wagga when he was asked about it, but Sharri reported last night that ASIO was tipped off by Israel. Do you suspect Mossad's involvement here?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, again, I haven't been briefed, but from my knowledge on the Australia-Israel intelligence relationship, it would not surprise me at all if Israeli intelligence had provided intelligence towards this task, a tip-off or some other thing. Now, as I understand it, Sharri has reported that the vast majority of the intelligence work was done by ASIO, and it is an extraordinary achievement that they have been able to unpick this. And to Mike Burgess and everyone at ASIO, it's a job incredibly well done. But it would be routine for Israel, which has a lot of intelligence holdings on Iran, to share that with a like-minded partner like Australia. I wouldn't be surprised about that.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, at least we have some relationship with Israel at the moment. That would prove, wouldn't it, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I would hope that despite the deep troubles at the political level and the diplomatic level that the intelligence relationship still remains healthy. But I do think if you allow the political and diplomatic relationship to continue to fester as badly as it has over the last two years, inevitably over time it will impact on our security intelligence relationship and that would be disastrous. It's one of the many reasons why we need a concerted effort to restore the bilateral relationship with Israel at that political and diplomatic level.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Just before we get to the economy and financial matters, I just want to ask you about this story about Richard Marles this morning. The Pentagon has told Nine News that there was no formal meeting between Hegseth and Miles while he was in D.C. It was just a happenstance encounter. We're getting into semantics here. Is there anything to see here in your view? There was a photo. It still shows they met in some capacity, but have you got a thought on that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, I think it's a good thing that the Deputy Prime Minister has been to Washington D.C., has met with the Vice President, has met the Secretary of State Rubio, has met with Stephen Miller, a very senior and influential official in the White House, along with our Ambassador Kevin Rudd. That's the kind of relationship that we aspire to have and want to have with the United States. Of course, what we need is for them to go the next step and ensure that the Prime Minister meets with President Trump. We're now 290 odd days on since he was elected, and that meeting hasn't happened, and it's getting embarrassing and awkward for everybody.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Do you care if it was a meeting or a happenstance encounter? Does that matter?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, look, I think to be fair to Richard Marles and the government, he has had extensive dealings with Secretary Hegseth in the past, and it appears that he met with him in some capacity while he was over there, and the meetings that he did have with the Vice President and the Secretary of State are substantial meetings.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Inflation shot up for the month, James. It was just monthly inflation, not quarterly, so it involves those more erratic numbers. But have you got a thought on that today, and what it means moving forward?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: You're right. One month of inflation data is not yet enough to be panicking, but it's certainly an unwelcome print, and it was not expected by any market economist. In fact, some market economists are out there calling this “a complete shocker” and what's underlying it is what worries me the most. Electricity prices jumped by 13.1% over the year to July, and that is because some of those subsidies weren't paid in the month of July. That is a taste of what's to come. The Albanese government has presided over a shocking increase in electricity prices, and they've been masking that with subsidies. But presumably the government doesn't intend to pay Australians' electricity bills forever. So at some point there's going to be a shocking moment of reality when Australians realise just how badly they have presided over this energy system.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, speaking of energy, what are you cooking up when it comes to a gas policy? It looks like one is getting ready, according to Phil Coorey this morning.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Pete, the gas policy that we took to the election is under review, like all of our policies. But in due course, we will announce a new gas policy, which will be different to the one we took to the election, but will have similar principles about making sure that gas is widely available and affordable for Australians. Because in the Coalition, we're unapologetically pro-gas. We want to take advantage of the natural resources we have in Australia. It is a critical fuel, not just for electricity generation, but for industry. And the more of it that we have and the cheaper that it is, the better off our country will be.
PETER STEFANOVIC: So, can you give us any details? We'll have to wrap here, but any details this morning, any advanced details on how different it would be from the policy that you took to the election?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I hate to disappoint you, Pete, but that's not my task today. And in due course, we will have more to say.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Alright, fair, James Paterson, good to see you, talk to you soon.
ENDS