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Transcripts
September 18, 2025
KENNY HEATLEY: Well, let's bring in Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson now. James, it's good to see you. So Australia will not force TikTok to sell its Australian operations to Australian companies as the US is doing. Are you concerned at all about that, given that the US has concerns about mistrust and mistrust over Chinese control?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, as you probably know, it's not my portfolio responsibility anymore, but in the previous parliament when I was the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security, I was very outspoken about this issue and led calls for the government to ban TikTok from government devices, which they eventually did because they had advice from our intelligence agencies that it was an espionage risk to government users. It's also a risk, though, to foreign interference, and that's why the US government has proceeded down this route and is attempting to effectively sever the control of TikTok USA from the parent company ByteDance, because it's subject to the laws and control of the Chinese government, which is an authoritarian government. If America is able to solve this problem and have a safer version of TikTok for US citizens, then I think we should be having a conversation with our American friends to see if we can be part of that solution, too. It would be an unfortunate thing if there was a safe version of TikTok in the United States, but a version of TikTok in Australia, which is still controlled by a foreign authoritarian government, so I think we need to be part of that conversation. And I hope that the government is talking to the administration about this.
KENNY HEATLEY: Papua New Guinea is expected to consult China over Australia's stalled Defence Treaty. Anthony Albanese, though, is confident the deal will be signed within weeks. Are you confident, considering that it is going to China first?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I would like to be able to share the Prime Minister's confidence, but he was also confident last week that this would be signed yesterday, and it wasn't. So, frankly, I'm not going to just take him at his word on this, particularly after he also failed to secure an agreement in Vanuatu. And the problem with these arrangements is that his government had been briefing the media for weeks in advance that this was done and dusted, signed and sealed, and both of these agreements would be achieved, and yet neither of them has been. In Australia's national interest, I hope the Prime Minister can pull this one out of the fire. I hope that the Foreign Minister can pull this one out of the fire. I hope they can get PNG and Vanuatu to agree because they are important in the strategic environment we find ourselves in. We are in, in the words of the Foreign Minister, a permanent contest in the Pacific for influence between ourselves and the People's Republic of China. We don't want to lose that contest because it will be extremely damaging to our national interest.
KENNY HEATLEY: Just what's coming up today, the Albanese government is expected to announce a 2035 emissions reduction target. Depending on what you read this morning, it could be between 60 and 75 per cent or even a range. Business groups are calling for a 50 percent target, which is achievable. What would be your reaction if we do see an emission reduction target in excess of 60 per cent?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, in their first term, the Albanese government has failed to reduce emissions at all. They've flatlined. Unlike the previous governments, all the Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison governments all reduced emissions. This government has not reduced emissions and now expects us to believe that it will meet its 2030 target and then some by 2035 with a big increase in that target. I'm deeply sceptical about this government's ability to do so, and I'm particularly sceptical about their ability to do so at an acceptable cost. We've seen what happened to energy prices in their first term. If they ramp up targets to an unrealistic and unachievable level, then that's even going to be harder to achieve without massive costs for Australians. So really the government is going to have to explain why its failure to deliver emissions reductions over the last three years is suddenly going to be transformed to spectacular increases in emissions reductions without any costs for households or businesses or employment.
KENNY HEATLEY: Treasurer Jim Chalmers has called the Opposition cookers and crackpots over climate. What's your response to that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, a secure treasurer who was confident in his position wouldn't need to lash out with extraordinary rhetoric like that. I think it shows that Jim Chalmers is an insecure treasurer, and it is probably because he's in a battle with people like Tony Burke for succession planning after Anthony Albanese, and he must be worried that Tony Burke is gaining internal authority and position at his expense. So he's trying to make a hero of himself with outlandish comments like these, but it's just not a serious contribution to a public policy discussion. All Sussan Ley was talking about yesterday was that we need to have prudent fiscal management, we need to have budget rules that discipline government spending. This is mainstream, conventional budget management that people like the Productivity Commissioner and former RBA Governors, former Treasury Secretaries have called on this government to implement because Jim Chalmers has been unable to control spending in his first term.
KENNY HEATLEY: James Paterson, appreciate it as always, thanks so much, talk to you soon.
ENDS