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August 12, 2025
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PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, let's go back to our top story now. That's the big announcement yesterday, the huge foreign policy shift by the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to formally declare a state of Palestine, and it will be done so at the UN General Assembly next month. Let's bring in the opposition now, Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson. Thanks for your time this morning, James. So, how have you reconciled the Prime Minister's decision with your own today?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Pete, I think this decision by the Prime Minister is wrong in principle. Australia should never recognise a state which is, in part, governed by a listed terrorist organisation that continues to hold hostages. And I thought it was extraordinary that the Prime Minister didn't even attach a condition of recognition in September for the hostages to be released. I also thought it incredibly naive for the Prime Minister to believe the promises of Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority. They've had 20 years to make these reforms, and they haven't done so. Why they would turn around and do these reforms after countries like Australia have promised to recognise them defies belief, and their ability to deliver on these reforms, particularly after democratic elections, I think, is in grave question given that they have a tenuous hold on the West Bank, let alone the Gaza Strip. And finally, I think this will be seen to be a historic mistake. As the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, has said, Hamas walked away from the negotiating table once they realised countries like Australia were willing to recognise a state of Palestine. Why would they negotiate and give up their leverage over hostages if they were getting exactly what they wanted without making any concessions in return?
PETER STEFANOVIC: Do you think Anthony Albanese has blown up our relationship with Israel? Pardon the pun.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I'm concerned this will damage our bilateral relationships with Israel and with the United States, and it certainly won't advance peace. And I'm concerned this is yet another move from a weak Prime Minister. Let's be clear, this is not a deft act of international diplomacy - this is a desperate act of domestic politics. He has given in to the pressure on his left flank to make a decision that departs from 30 years of bipartisan precedent in this country. He's trashed our foreign policy record, including with our closest allies, and all for nothing but a desperate domestic political gain.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Aren't we just following an international trend, though, bearing in mind that more than 140 other nations have already done so?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, as the Prime Minister himself says, the Australian government should make decisions in our national interest. We shouldn't follow the dictates of any other country, and I agree with that. And we should be assessing our contribution to this on the basis that it will make a material difference on the ground, and it is consistent with our values. But I don't think it's consistent with Australia's values to recognise a listed terrorist organisation who holds hostages. And I don't think this intervention is going to help on the ground. I think, actually, it's going to send things backwards because you've lost all of your leverage over Hamas. Why would they give anything in return now? You've also lost your leverage over Israel. Like many Australians, I am concerned about the humanitarian situation in Gaza. It is very dire, and we should have high expectations of Israel to deliver the food and aid that the people of Gaza need. But Australia's voice will carry absolutely no weight at all now with the government in Jerusalem, with the Netanyahu government, after we've done this.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Just on that point, James, did our voice actually carry any weight at all, given we are a non-entity in Middle Eastern politics?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, it's true that we're not a central player, but every step that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, have taken since the 7th of October has contributed to diminishing our influence and diminishing our voice. It started with the Prime Minister refusing to visit Israel, like almost every other democratic world leader did in the wake of the 7th of October, and it continued with many slights against Israel in that time, including voting against them at the United Nations and in other forums. So it's no wonder that Australia has lost any influence that we once might have had in that, and we've just thrown away any remaining influence we had. We will be completely ignored by the government of Israel from now on, following this decision.
PETER STEFANOVIC: What do you fear happens locally now? I mean, the protests are going to continue. Do you fear, you know, antisemitism continues here despite this call?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, unfortunately, I think, although there are many people in Australia who are well motivated about this, who are very sincere about their concerns about the humanitarian situation, as we all should be, we also know there are very extreme anti-Israel elements in Australia, many of whom are actually antisemitic. And they will see this as a win as well. They will see it as a victory. They will think their pressure campaign against the government has worked. Those attacks on electorate offices, the vandalism of public symbols, the harassment of the Jewish community, they will think this has paid off and they'll be emboldened by this. And when extremists can dictate your foreign policy, then I think you're in a very bad place.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Just elsewhere this morning in your portfolio, I noticed the story in the Australian, expenses for Future Fund chiefs have been revealed. Greg Combey, he's racked up about $180,000 on dozens of domestic and international flights and hotels in just a year. No such reveal for all of the staff, though. I mean, big numbers for a publicly listed company as well.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Pete, I don't want to be unreasonable about this. Of course, the Chair and particularly the CEO of the Future Fund do need to travel, both domestically and internationally, and that travel may be reasonable. But we are in no position to assess that because the Future Fund, a taxpayer-funded organisation which holds the retirement savings of public servants, has refused to hand over information for anyone but its most senior officers. So we have no idea how much its other executives are spending on international, domestic travel, and hospitality and that does not pass the most basic transparency standards. Katy Gallagher as Finance Minister should be directing the Future Fund today to come clean, cough up, and reveal just how much the rest of the Future Fund team has spent on travel and hospitality.
PETER STEFANOVIC: All right, we'll leave it there, James. Thanks for your time, though. We'll chat again soon.
ENDS