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May 21, 2025
LAURA JAYES: Welcome back. Well, we are still trying to get our heads around what has just happened in the Coalition. On the face of it, it's a divorce. The Coalition, as we've known it for the past decades, 80 years, is no longer. The Nationals and the Liberal Party have officially split. So on the opposition benches, in the opposition shadow ministry, there will only be Liberals. And essentially, the Nationals will sit on the crossbench. Joining me live now is Shadow Home Affairs and Cyber Security Minister James Paterson. James, where were you when you heard this news, and what do you think of it?
JAMES PATERSON: I was on my way to a meeting, Laura. I was surprised and disappointed when I heard the news yesterday, particularly because I think that the four policy issues identified by David Littleproud and his National colleagues are not insurmountable issues. I don't think that the Liberal Party and the National Party are that far apart ideologically. Of course, we have some differences from time to time, but I believe that had we been allowed to follow the proper process and had we been given a reasonable amount of time, we could have come to a mutually agreeable outcome on all of those issues between the Liberal Party Room and the National Party Room. I am still hopeful that we'll be able to do that in this term. I do not think we should head to the next election without having reached a Coalition agreement.
LAURA JAYES: Well, if you don't, there's just no way you can be a party of government.
JAMES PATERSON: Well it certainly makes it harder Laura and I don't think it's in the Liberal Party's interest or the National Party's interests or more importantly in the interest of the people that we represent whether they're in urban areas or regional areas, whether they are small business people or farmers or families, I think they all are more poorly served by the two centre right parties of Australia being at loggerheads rather than working in partnership. At elections the Liberal Party already has to fight the Labor Party, the Greens, the Climate 200 financed Teals, so do the National Party. None of us should be in the market for any additional political opponents than we already have, frankly.
LAURA JAYES: I mean, David Littleproud said this morning, and as he said yesterday, the Liberals need to find out who they are. Do you know who you are?
JAMES PATERSON: I think we've got a pretty good idea of who we are and what we stand for, Laura. Our values are timeless. They are the principles that Liberal Party has always espoused. But candidly, which have not always been consistently reflected in our policies and we've work to do to make sure that's the case so that our supporters in the community recognise us for who we are and are proud to vote for us again and we have a policy offering that inspires them to have hope for the future of our country. That is our task, and frankly, that's our task regardless of whether we're in Coalition with the National Party or not, and we'll set about doing that now, but I think we should try to put this back together as quickly as possible.
LAURA JAYES: How quickly can it be done? Because it seems to be a high-stakes game of chicken at the moment, and the Liberals keep on saying, well, our door's open, and the Nationals are saying, our door is open too, but who's going to cross the threshold first?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, Laura, of the issues that have been raised in the media, I think the policy issues can be resolved in a pretty timely way, frankly. We will go through our review process, we'll consider them as a party room and as a Liberal shadow cabinet, and I think that we can come to a landing on those issues that will be agreeable to the National Party and vice versa. It may involve some compromises, but I think we can achieve that. The one issue that's been reported in the media that I think is a stumbling block - and I want to be fair to my Nationals colleagues because I was not involved in the negotiations, I have not heard this from them directly - but it is reported that the National Party was seeking some kind of arrangement where they would not be bound by the conventions of shadow cabinet responsibility, collective responsibility of the cabinet. Now that is one issue which is a seriously problematic issue to resolve. That is a centuries old Westminster political tradition. It is a convention of parliamentary democracy, which is essential to delivering stable government. And one issue which I'm very proudly very conservative on is on institutions, and I thought that many of my National Party colleagues shared that. But you cannot offer stable government to the people of Australia if you're having a la carte shadow cabinet responsibility where you get to pick and choose which decisions of the Shadow Cabinet you are bound by or not bound by and that must be resolved.
LAURA JAYES: To my understanding of that is, you know, that was kind of a last-ditch shingle being thrown out there by the Nationals. Perhaps, okay, you don't agree to these four things, well, can we still sit in shadow cabinet and not have cabinet solidarity? I mean, surely that was just trying it on, there at the end?
JAMES PATERSON: I honestly don't know, Laura, you may be right. I haven't had those conversations directly with my Nationals colleagues. I want to have conversations with them and hear their perspective on that. But if it is accurate, as the media has reported, I think that is a significant stumbling block. There are many things which we are willing to compromise on to reach an agreement, to re-form the Coalition. But one thing we cannot compromise on is a fundamental feature of parliamentary democracy and the Westminster system of government, which we have inherited a tradition from centuries ago in the British parliament and which we are custodians of and should aim to hand over to the next generation.
LAURA JAYES: Do you think the defection of Jacinta Price to the Liberals fomented this distrust and further frayed relations between the Liberals and the Nationals?
JAMES PATERSON: It's certainly possible that that was a factor, Laura. But the truth is that Jacinta Price has always felt that she was a Liberal. She has always preferred to sit in the Liberal party room. I have been trying to recruit Jacinta to the Liberal party for 10 years and before the 2022 federal election, in the spirit of Coalition and trying to keep things calm, she agreed to sit with the National Party. But that was not her preference and it was always the case that she would seek to join the Liberal Party when she had the opportunity to do so, and we welcome her to the Liberal party. She is an extraordinary political talent. We're very proud to have her, and that is not an issue that's going to change.
LAURA JAYES: James, finally, before I let you go, I want to talk to you about not just these four principles that we've heard from the Nationals. I mean, nuclear being one of them, David Littleproud seemed to say this morning that he would accept a policy platform agreed to by the two parties, that it would just be to lift the moratorium on nuclear, then perhaps let the market decide, not a commitment to spend taxpayer money to build them. But what they didn't even get to, which should ring alarm bells, is net zero. Now, there's a fair chunk of the Nationals party room that wants to dump the Paris Agreement. Would that be acceptable to you? Would that be acceptable to the Liberal party room, that you would dump that commitment and essentially start arguing about issues from elections past?
JAMES PATERSON: I don't want to disappoint you or your viewers, Laura, and it's a fair question for you to ask, but I'm not going to get ahead of my colleagues on that issue. I'm going to respect the party room process. One of the important commitments that Sussan Ley has made to us and all of our colleagues is there won't be captain's calls, and we'll follow a proper process on policy issues. We'll settle that through the Liberal Party room and the Shadow Cabinet process.
LAURA JAYES: Okay, how long is that process going to take, James, do you think?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, look, I mean, we'll have to start making decisions on policy from the day that the Parliament sits because the Labor party will be putting up legislation that we'll have to determine our view on and we'll go through the normal backbench policy committee process, shadow cabinet process and party room process to resolve those.
LAURA JAYES: Okay, so that's a really good point to make. I'm sorry to interrupt you, James, on the structural issues as well, but you're right. I mean, once Parliament resumes, the party's going to have to make decisions on it. Do you see a problem with you know making decisions on principle with policy as they arise before you get to you know a more firm overall principled policy platform? So, essentially, what I'm saying is, is there no rush?
JAMES PATERSON: I don't see a problem at all there, Laura. I mean, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We will have a review process, which will be thorough and which will be focused on listening to the Australian people and hearing their message. But you have to make tactical decisions every day in politics, and how you respond to issues that arise. And the Labor Party will bowl up many interesting policy options for us to consider and respond to, some of which they might have a mandate for, much of which they will not. And we will have to determine what we think is in the Liberal Party's interest and the national interest, and that's how we'll vote.
LAURA JAYES: James, great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much.
JAMES PATERSON: Likewise, thanks, Laura.
ENDS