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Transcripts
October 8, 2026
ALEX THOMAS: Let's speak to Shadow Defence Minister and Victorian Senator James Paterson. He joins us live on the show now. Good morning to you, James. Are you surprised so many Australians feel unsafe?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Good morning, Alex. No, I'm not surprised at all. Australians are right. They've got a government that's not taking national security and defence seriously and is failing to follow the advice of our own best informed experts. People like Sir Angus Houston and Professor Peter Dean, who completed the Defence Strategic Review for the Albanese Government, and have both said we need to be spending about 3% of GDP, not 2% of GDP on defence. And if we continue to neglect our defence and national security, I fear we'll be harshly judged by history. I think the Albanese Government should use this poll as a wake-up call to step up and actually invest what we need to secure our country.
THOMAS: US President Donald Trump has announced a multi-billion dollar plan to build more nuclear subs, and the government is hailing that as a boost for the AUKUS Pact, would you agree?
PATERSON: I'm certainly encouraged by this announcement, along with the company, Anduril, which is a highly innovative defence technology company, to start up effectively another shipyard in the United States to build components, including for nuclear propelled submarines. Anything that increases the production rate of nuclear submarines in the United States is good for Australia because it makes it easier for them to meet their goals for Virginia class submarines in the water and more likely that they can certify a transfer of Virginia class submarines in 2032 to Australia. So I strongly support this initiative. It's great to see private sector companies like Anduril stepping up to contribute to this national security mission for our collective defence.
THOMAS: And on the subject of AUKUS, there is an element to the Coalition's new migration policy.
PATERSON: That's right. I mean, Angus Taylor said from the very beginning, we need to bring the numbers down and lift the standards. And what we're proposing to do in our migration policy is radically reduce the number of low economic value visas that are handed out, like temporary graduate visas and bridging visas, and replace them with a smaller number of very high value visas from an economic point of view, including 3,500 AUKUS visas that will be granted only, for security reasons, to Five Eyes members like Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom and New Zealand, and allow people to come here and work on AUKUS projects. That's important because it will help us deliver AUKUS, but it's also important because it allows us to bring people in who make a real contribution, a real economic contribution, in much smaller numbers rather than the undisciplined, unmanaged program that Labor has presided over with frankly very low economic value.
THOMAS: And on the subject of defence and security, the new Greens leader, Senator David Shoebridge, has suggested Australia should stop contributing to Ukraine's defence against Russia. What do you make of that?
PATERSON: What's absolutely extraordinary that David Shoebridge and the Greens want Australia to abandon Ukraine and allow Russia and Vladimir Putin to run roughshod over Ukraine and extinguish their independence and their sovereignty. It's particularly extraordinary the rationale that David Shoebridge has used. He said he'd be willing to support Ukraine, but only if the United Nations Security Council blessed it. But of course, Russia is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. So effectively, David Shoebridge and the Greens want to outsource our defence and foreign policy to Russia. They want to say that Vladimir Putin should have a veto about whether Australia acts in our own national interest. If you follow this logic to its extreme logical conclusion, we wouldn't even step in to assist New Zealand if Russia invaded them tomorrow, unless Russia allowed us to do so through a UN Security Council resolution. It is morally repugnant, and it is strategically reckless, particularly in a dangerous world.
THOMAS: James, while I've got you, there's been a fierce backlash over the Australian Tax Office's decision to ban credit card payments by small businesses. The Labor government has asked them to change their mind, and they're digging in their heels. Do you think they should have a U-turn on this?
PATERSON: It's the height of hypocrisy from the Albanese Labor Government, who've told small businesses they must cop the cost of no longer being allowed to charge a credit card surcharge, while at the same time their own government agency, the ATO, has said to small businesses you can't pay your taxes with credit cards anymore because we don't want to cop the surcharge. This is exactly what you get when you have a Labor government that doesn't understand small business.
THOMAS: It sounds like the government want them to change their mind. It's the ATO who are deciding to go their own way.
PATERSON: I do not accept these false complaints and excuses from the Albanese Labor Government. They are the government. They're the ones who brought in this change. They administer the ATO, and if they want the ATOs to accept credit card payments, they should do so.
THOMAS: Okay, James Paterson, really appreciate your time as always. Thank you.
PATERSON: Thank you.
ENDS