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Transcripts
April 17, 2026
SALLY SARA: Well, as you're hearing this morning, the government plans to increase defence spending by an extra $53 billion over the next decade. Defence Minister Richard Marles says he wants to increase, quote, self-reliance as the world enters what he's describing as a period of disorder. James Paterson is the Shadow Minister for Defence and joins me now. James Paterson, welcome back to Breakfast.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me, Sally.
SALLY SARA: Before we get to this defence spending, Donald Trump overnight has again singled out Australia for not directly assisting the war in Iran and the opening of the Strait of Hormuz. What do you make of these now repeated criticisms of Australia?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, you're right, Sally, they are repeated. I think by my count, this is the fourth or fifth time that the President has publicly called out Australia. And it is not a good state of affairs for our most important security relationship and alliance. Now, I understand why many Australians do not approve of President Trump, but the reality is he is the president of our most important ally, and he will be for the next three years. So this is an important relationship that needs to be managed. And it's very unfortunate that we have this contradiction between what the Australian Government is saying, what the US Government is saying. The Australian Government asserts that there have been no requests to Australia, and I take them at their word. But President Trump has now repeatedly said there have been requests. And so my question is, what has the Prime Minister done to clarify this with President Trump? What has he done to clear this up? When is the last time he spoke to President Trump about this?
SALLY SARA: You're the Shadow Defence Minister, do you think Australia should be helping out in the Strait of Hormuz if there's been a request?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I've said that we should of course consider any requests from our most important ally carefully in our own national interest and then make a sovereign choice about whether we think we've got the capable and available ADF assets to contribute. But I've also said I am very cautious about Australia potentially joining any offensive operations against Iran, including a blockade of Iran, which is effectively joining the war on the Islamic Republic regime. I'm much more open to Australia participating in a multinational force after the cessation of hostilities to help manage the Strait of Hormuz in that coalition, which is being led right now by the UK and France.
SALLY SARA: Do you have any concerns about Donald Trump's leadership, given some of the contradictory statements and some analysts have viewed some of his comments as erratic?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I understand the interest that you and your listeners will have in that, but I'm the Shadow Minister for Defence in Australia and I am constrained about what I can say about that because it's not in the national interest to have people in positions like mine running a commentary on domestic politics in a friendly democracy and particularly not in our most important ally.
SALLY SARA: You've said that there are a number of areas in which you agree with the federal government here on defence, including the need to respond to the changing nature of modern warfare. The government wants to build more self-reliance and insists that the US alliance remains critical to Australia's national security. Is the government's overall approach the right one for Australia?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think there is bipartisan consensus on the broad strategic direction of defence and strategic policy. So we do agree that we are living in a different world, that we need to be more self-reliant, that we need to spend more on defence, that we need to invest in AUKUS, that we need to deliver those next-generation capabilities, that we need to shift more towards drones and missiles and other things. Where we disagree primarily is on the pace and the extent of that change. I don't think the government is increasing defence spending anywhere near enough as they should, or as quickly enough as they should. They themselves have said in this strategy and previous documents that the 10-year warning time for conflict is gone, and yet they don't intend to peak defence spending into the early 2030s, almost a decade away.
SALLY SARA: Given the use of ammunition and other military technology in this conflict in Iran, are you concerned that that makes the Asia Pacific more vulnerable?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm incredibly concerned. It is a well-known fact that since the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza, and now the war over Iran, that Western military stocks have been seriously depleted, particularly our stocks of missiles, and that it has been reported that the United States has drawn down on the Indo-Pacific stockpiles, which are designated for that region and are used to deter any power in that region, including the People's Republic of China, taking aggressive action and that is a concerning thing and it will take years to replace those stocks. And so Australia has a very important role to play in helping to address that, both for our own national interest and our collective self-defence.
SALLY SARA: Separately on the fuel issue back home, would you support a reassessment of the National Fuel Security Plan following the fire at the oil refinery in Geelong?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think very clearly Australia has had a wake-up call from the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. We are reliant on imported refined fuels, primarily from Asian refineries, and they are in turn reliant on crude oil from the Middle East. So we do have to look at whether we can be a greater source of crude oil supplies, whether we take advantage of some of the deposits that, for example, the Queensland government is championing to supply those Asian refineries, whether we can source alternative supplies from the United States and others who are now net exporters of energy, which they were not in the last Iran crisis in 1979. So yes, everything should be reassessed in that light.
SALLY SARA: Should we be moved from Level 2 up to Level 3 on the Government's Plan?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, I don't have the access to information that the government has about which level we should be at. Only they can tell us whether or not, for example, any form of rationing is necessary. But I have seen media reports overnight about a shortage of aviation fuel in Europe and the expectation in Europe that that will need to lead to very significant reductions in flights. Now, if Australia is in any danger of facing that, then the government should be upfront with the Australian people today and clarify that.
SALLY SARA: Senator James Paterson, thank you very much.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thank you.
ENDS