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April 28, 2025
GARY ADSHEAD:
Senator James Paterson, he's the Shadow Spokesperson on Home Affairs, and he's the official election Campaign Spokesperson for The Coalition. He joins me to discuss the hate comments from Peter Dutton and other issues of the day. Thanks very much for your time, Senator.
JAMES PATERSON:
Great to be with you, Gary.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Okay, why did Peter Dutton suggest that the ABC and The Guardian are hate media?
JAMES PATERSON:
Look, I think it was a comment made in jest. I think he was referring to the very close scrutiny applied to him and our campaign by both the ABC and the Guardian, and I hope people didn't take too much offence.
GARY ADSHEAD:
But it wasn't, he didn't really mean it tongue-in-cheek, he was talking to a bit of a base, wasn't he? A supporter base, to sort of say that's probably what they think, so I'll just say it.
JAMES PATERSON:
Look, I know Peter very well, and I know it was tongue-in-cheek. I know he was just being a bit cheeky. I know he was ribbing the ABC and the Guardian in a good spirit. I think people who know Peter well and have observed him for a long time recognise that he engages very openly with the media. Unlike the Prime Minister, he takes questions from every journalist in the press pack every day. He doesn't skip over people. He gives them plenty of opportunity, and he's there to be scrutinised every day and accepts that role in our democracy.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Would he regret saying it, though?
JAMES PATERSON:
I don't think so, I think he would just think it's part of the you know cut and thrust of debate, and you know I really hope no one at the ABC, or at the Guardian, is getting too precious about this because certainly very tough scrutiny is applied.
GARY ADSHEAD:
A little bit.
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, I would hope that they, you know, see it in the light in which it was intended. You know, very tough scrutiny is applied to politicians at all times, particularly in election campaigns. And that's fair enough, because we're putting ourselves forward to be judged by the Australian people to govern this country. But I don't think you know, a little bit of ribbing at the media's expense goes astray in a healthy democracy.
GARY ADSHEAD:
I don't know. I'm not convinced that it was ribbing. I thought it was the use of the term hate media is perhaps extreme. And of course, you know, it could be argued that it's a leaf out of the Trump book in terms of, you know, fake news and the way he speaks of media that dare critique him.
JAMES PATERSON:
Gary, you haven't been back at the ABC for very long, and you know, you're back on the ABC talking points. I would have thought your time at other media outlets would have cured you of that!
GARY ADSHEAD:
Well no, but it wasn't me that said hate media, it was the Leader of the Opposition, the alternative Prime Minister. I mean, he's the one who said it.
JAMES PATERSON:
Yeah, and I understand why it attracts interest, particularly from ABC presenters, and it's very gallant of you to defend your new employer, but honestly, I assure you, it was intended in good humour, and no one should be too upset about it.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Okay, all right. Well, I still don't quite get the joke on that one, but maybe I will over time. Just on another issue that came up during the debate, of course, last night, it was a question that was asked of Peter Dutton and of Anthony Albanese. It was around Welcome to Country ceremonies. Where do you stand on the use of welcome or acknowledgement of country?
JAMES PATERSON:
My view is the same as Peter's, which is that there is an appropriate place for Welcome to Countrys and acknowledgments of countrys, but sometimes I think it has been done to excess, and it almost becomes tokenistic. I've certainly been at and participated in meetings, where every single speaker does an acknowledgement to country, and there can be half a dozen in a single day. And really, that's not genuine and heartfelt. It's just ticking a box. And I think that cheapens it. I think it should be reserved for appropriate occasions, significant occasions where it's relevant and appropriate. And that way it'll have both meaning and I think more popular support.
GARY ADSHEAD:
How do you determine, though, what those types of occasions are?
JAMES PATERSON:
I think it's really up to organisers. We're not proposing a national law to decide when they should or shouldn't be Welcome to Countrys. It's open to organisers of any event, whether it's a sporting event, a community event or a cultural event, to decide when they think it is appropriate for their organisation or event.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright, so it's not something that if you were to form government at the end of this week, you would implement, you wouldn't put in protocols for various organisations, whether they be government or not, as to how they go about deciding on whether to have one?
JAMES PATERSON:
No, no, we're not proposing any changes like that at all. Peter was just asked his own opinion, and he gave it honestly, as he does when he's asked questions directly. I mean, he said himself that he thinks, for example, at the opening of the Parliament, at the start of a parliamentary term, that is an appropriate place for a Welcome to Country. And there's no reason why that should change.
GARY ADSHEAD:
He also agreed, though, that with a number of veterans who suggest that it's inappropriate on ANZAC Day, he could see the merit of their argument. Do you think it should be included as part of the services of ANZAC Day?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, I think actually, Peter was just giving his assessment of what he thought most veterans would feel. He wasn't actually advancing his own view on that. He said he thinks the majority of veterans, you know, probably don't like it on Anzac Day. I think, again, this is a question for organisers. There are some ANZAC Day ceremonies that I've been to that do feature it, and there are others that don't. And it's really up to organisers to decide whether or not they think it's fitting and appropriate. One thing I do feel very strongly about, though, is that the service of Indigenous Australians to the ADF must be acknowledged and must be celebrated because frankly, a lot of Indigenous Australians signed up to serve this country when this country didn't treat them as well as it should. And despite that, they signed up to fight for our country. And I think that is worthy of great admiration and respect and should be celebrated.
GARY ADSHEAD:
What did you make then of what happened in Melbourne, the heckling there, but also in Perth there was an incident of heckling at Kings Park when the Welcome to Country was happening?
JAMES PATERSON:
I think ANZAC Day is our most sacred day and it is totally inappropriate to engage in any form of disruption or protest and it was despicable frankly for those people to boo during the Welcome to Country that occurred at those events. And those people frankly have very bad motivations, I mean, the person at the Victorian event is a self-described neo-Nazi, who has been convicted of a series of significant crimes. And frankly, he would have been on the wrong side of World War II had he been alive at the time; he worships Adolf Hitler. And so people like that, really don't add anything to the public debate, and I think should be ignored.
GARY ADSHEAD:
It's quite bizarre, isn't it? Some of the messaging that comes out of people that are neo-Nazis on ANZAC Day. Have they forgotten what the wars were all about?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, exactly, Gary. I mean, these people sometimes describe themselves as Australian patriots, but actually, they worship a foreign regime of one of history's worst losers, Adolf Hitler. The real patriots were the men and women who put on the Australian uniform and went to Europe to fight and defeat Nazism. And we have to honour their legacy today by fighting Nazism whenever it rears its ugly head in our country.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Just on another matter, it's been clear there's been to and fro in relation to whether or not Russia had put in a formal request to Indonesia in relation to putting long-range military aircraft in that country. There's been this sort of decision by the Albanese government that it's a moot argument because it hasn't happened or it's not happening. The Australian have reported today that this was known to the government before the election campaign, that indeed Russia had put in this request.
JAMES PATERSON:
That's right. And I'm very concerned with the way that the Albanese government has handled this. I mean, the Prime Minister at one point compared it to a fake moon landing. Another one of his ministers, Murray Watt, compared it to the Loch Ness monster. And it now appears, as was originally reported in that respected military journal, Janes, that, in fact, an offer or request was made by the Russian government to the Indonesians. And it appears that the Indonesian government rejected that request, and that's very welcome. But the attempt to downplay the seriousness of that and to refuse the opposition a briefing, I think, is a very serious breach of bipartisanship on national security and doesn't reflect well on this government at all.
GARY ADSHEAD:
OK, now just for want of wanting to sort of not look like I'm a reds under the bed conspiracy theorist, but I know that the Sydney Morning Herald have come out with a story not too long ago which suggests that there is a group in Australia that has links to the Chinese Communist Party that are actively supporting Monique Ryan, the Teal member in her campaign. What do you think about that story?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, these are very serious allegations, and it is a very troubling report because Australian elections must be decided by Australians only. And if these reports are confirmed, it would constitute an act of foreign interference in our democracy. For the benefit of your listeners, the United Front Work Department is an agency of the Chinese Communist Party described by Xi Jinping as its quote-unquote "magic weapon", which conducts foreign interference operations abroad for the Chinese government. And someone affiliated with that organisation is alleged to have been recruiting and directing volunteers to support Monique Ryan in her campaign. Now, that would be potentially the long arm of a foreign authoritarian state trying to put its thumb on the scale of an Australian election, and that would be very serious. So it must be investigated by the relevant authorities, including the Australian Federal Police and ASIO, and it's very important that Monique Ryan front up and explain what she knew about this scheme and when she knew it.
GARY ADSHEAD:
There are people in a video which are clearly Monique Ryan supporters who have confirmed that they're part of this group. Is that the allegation?
JAMES PATERSON:
That's right. They describe in this video, which I understand was briefly posted to social media before it was deleted, that they had been directed by someone from the Hubei Association, which is an association linked to the Chinese government, to be campaigning and supporting Monique Ryan. Now, on face value, that is a concession and admission that there is attempted foreign interference in the election, and that's why it needs to be investigated very promptly.
GARY ADSHEAD:
But Monique Ryan might not be aware of that connection?
JAMES PATERSON:
You're right, that is possibly the case. And it's really up to Monique Ryan to be transparent and to explain what she knew about these volunteers, whether she knew that they were directed, whether she knew the organisation that directed them was linked to a foreign government.
GARY ADSHEAD:
All right. You're in the home stretch of this election campaign. How are you feeling about how it's gone, and what will happen on Saturday?
JAMES PATERSON:
We feel like this election is very much up for grabs, and it will be decided this week. There is still a very significant number of Australians who have yet to make a decision, some of whom will probably only make a decision when they pick up that pencil in the voting booth when they get there on Saturday, and others of whom will make the decision this week when they go to early voting or post their postal ballot. We think, though, if they do hear our message about our plan to relieve the cost of living with petrol and diesel tax cuts, with up to a $1,200 rebate on your tax. With a plan to get the price of gas and energy down in our country, that we stand a very good chance of winning this election.
GARY ADSHEAD:
In the meantime, don't believe what you read in the hate media.
JAMES PATERSON:
Maybe just take it with a grain of salt.
GARY ADSHEAD:
All right, thanks very much for joining us.
ENDS