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Transcripts
June 3, 2025
Tuesday 03 June 2025
Interview on ABC Radio Canberra Drive
Topics: Public service portfolio, election lessons, Senate composition
E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………………….
GEORGIA STYNES: If you look at the Federal Liberal Party, when it comes to the result in the recent election. They had their worst result ever. And part of that might have been down to this stance on cutting public service workers in the capital of course or if you listen to George Brandis as I was mentioning earlier his interview with PK on Four Corners, he sort of listed all the amounts of people they had in fact alienated. Well guess what? There's a new Shadow Minister for the Public Service. Senator James Paterson joins us. Good afternoon.
JAMES PATERSON: Thank you for having me.
GEORGIA STYNES: Do you think you got your work cut out for you do you think?
JAMES PATERSON: I sure do, we all do, and when you have a loss this bad, the most important thing is to be humble, to listen to the verdict of the Australian people and to learn from it.
GEORGIA STYNES: I wonder too, a lot of it has been put down here in the ACT, due to the stance on the public service and I think Dutton's comments originally, which were then pulled back slightly, but do you think it's as simple as that?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, I'm sure that was a factor. There's no question that a combination of our promise to very significant cuts in the numbers of public servants, but also our working from home policy, which was primarily targeted at public servants, was not very well received in Canberra or the surrounding areas. But frankly, I think it was an issue for our party nationally, along with the rest of our policy agenda. And it's really important that we learn that lesson and that we do the hard policy work on an agenda for the next election that can earn back that trust and support that we've lost.
GEORGIA STYNES: There was the comments going around, too, that it was almost a mirroring of what was happening in the US. The idea of demonising the public servants and trying to, you know, cost efficiency. Are you stepping firmly away from that?
JAMES PATERSON: I think it's certainly the language was unfortunate. I want to have a really respectful and constructive and productive relationship with the public service. The truth is that politicians can't do anything on our own, even when we do win elections, we can only do it in partnership with public servants. And in my experience, over my parliamentary career observing public servants up close, I think overwhelmingly they are patriotic, they are professional and they go to work because they want to make their country a better place and I want to have that respectful and constructive relationship with them.
GEORGIA STYNES: What's your view, though, on decentralising the idea of moving some of the departments to other parts of the country?
JAMES PATERSON: My view is that the most important thing about where a public service department agency is located is firstly that it allows them to deliver the service or the capability that they're charged with delivering for Australians and secondly that it's the most efficient way of doing so, because we are all custodians and stewards of taxpayers dollars and we should want to get the most out of those dollars. They're the two most important criteria for me.
GEORGIA STYNES: The other thing, I'm sure you have gone over the numbers and there will be a lot of soul-searching within the Liberal Party as well as I think maybe Greens and others as well. But the idea being that when it comes to the candidates that are put up at the moment, were put up in this election in Canberra that we could have done better. Do you acknowledge that?
JAMES PATERSON: Yeah, I don't want to comment on specific candidates for obvious reasons, but yes, candidate selection is an incredibly important part of what we do. And we did see around Australia some choices made with candidates that cost us support in the community because they had a past that we weren't aware of that came to light during the campaign or they made comments or did things in the campaign which distracted from our message in a way that was very counterproductive. And so properly and adequately vetting our candidates to make sure that they enhance the Liberal Party's brand when they're out in the community, not detract from it, is absolutely essential.
GEORGIA STYNES: There also seems to be this, you know, idea that you can't win more than one Senate seat. Do you dispute that? Do you think you could have a good go?
JAMES PATERSON: Look, the Liberal Party is at our best when we fight to represent every Australian, no matter where they live, whether they are in the cities or in the regions, whether they are in Canberra or anywhere else. So I aspire to have a Senator representing the ACT again from the Liberal party, and I want to also compete in the Canberra region more broadly, in places like Eden-Monaro and Gilmore that are not that far away, where there are a lot of public servants or retired public servants or people who care about the region, and I want them to feel that the Liberal party is a party that they can vote for.
GEORGIA STYNES: Our guest is Senator James Paterson, the Shadow Minister for the Public Service. I mean, part of that, you said that you're going to sit down and listen to Canberrans as well as the public service. That might mean working with, well, the Senators at the moment as well here in the ACT, or all the Members that are representing the ACT, so across the corridor, are you willing to do that?
JAMES PATERSON: Of course, I mean that's part of actually what we do every day in Parliament. It's not the most obvious part of Parliament. It's not the one that gets the coverage on the nightly news. But I have a really respectful relationship with my counterpart, Katy Gallagher. We've served on committees together. And David Pocock as well, has been a thoughtful addition to the Senate. He and I wouldn't always agree, but I think he approaches his job in a very sincere and genuine way.
GEORGIA STYNES: Do you have any things though right now, I know you're saying that you don't necessarily subscribe to the idea of the big cuts in the public service, but you must have some idea of what you want to achieve?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, what I really want is a public service that is happy, that's motivated, that's working well with the government to deliver on the government's agenda and to deliver the services that Australians expect. And that does so in a way that is as respectful of taxpayer dollars as possible because that is a really important part of what we do. That's the macro strategy and approach that I'm aiming for. Underneath that there'll be lots of policies that will inform that which I'm going to develop over the next couple of years in opposition. And I'm in the market for good ideas. I'm open for suggestions. We are in the listening mode post-election, as we must be.
GEORGIA STYNES: How hard is it though, too, because yes, of course, you're in listening mode, but you don't have a lot of power in terms of affecting legislation, would you admit that at the moment, just given the numbers?
JAMES PATERSON: Yeah, in the Senate it's clear that the government has two main pathways to pass legislation, either with the Greens, which I think will probably be their focus, or alternatively with the Coalition. There is now a possibility with Dorinda Cox's defection from the Greens to government they could also cobble together a pathway through the crossbench, but that would require them to get every single cross-bencher, which includes Lidia Thorpe and Pauline Hanson, to agree on an issue, which I think is probably not very likely.
GEORGIA STYNES: So one of the things too, I mean, given you're going to be the Shadow Minister for the Public Service, and of course, we're talking about here in Canberra, are you going to see an end to some of the Canberra bashing?
JAMES PATERSON: Yeah, I've never really engaged in that personally. I don't think it's productive. I've chaired the Intelligence Committee and I work very closely with our intelligence agencies, many of whom are based in Canberra and whose employees work and live in Canberra. And they are patriotic Australians who work very hard every day to keep us safe and to protect our freedoms. And they deserve respect for where they work and where they choose to live.
GEORGIA STYNES: Thank you so much for taking the time, I appreciate it.
JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me.
ENDS