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Transcripts
April 13, 2026
SHANE MCINNES: Joining me on the line now is Senator James Paterson, Shadow Defence Minister. Senator, good afternoon to you. Thank you for your time.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Great to be with you, Shane.
SHANE MCINNES: Is this $20 million well spent?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It's certainly not, and I thought your editorial put it perfectly. If it is true that we have no interruptions to supply, record fuel on shore, then why does the government need to spend 20 million dollars of taxpayers' money to patronisingly lecture them about how they should spend less on fuel? No one who fills up their own car, who is paying more than $3 a litre for diesel and more than $2 a litre for petrol, needs any lectures about driving less. They are doing it already, and they're only driving if they have to.
SHANE MCINNES: As the opposition, do you think that there is concern over our fuel supply? Do you think the Prime Minister and the government are being honest with us?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: We can only take the Prime Minister and the government at their word because they haven't been transparent unless really pushed about the details of the supplies and the interruptions, particularly at service stations around Australia. You have to draw that information out of them reluctantly. When they do give us that, they assure us that everything's fine. And so we have to take them at their word. But it's very clear that the conflict in the Middle East is not ending anytime soon. And even if it does, it's clear that it's going to take a long time before the supply chain disruptions are cleared up.
SHANE MCINNES: Are you supportive of the Prime Minister shoring up supply by travelling to Singapore? I think he's going overseas again later this week to our Southeast Asian neighbours. Is this smart politicking from him?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes, I am supportive. We have really important relationships with our partners like Singapore, and Japan, and Korea, and Malaysia, and Brunei, and others. We often supply them with critical energy imports that they require, like LNG and coal, and it's reasonable in return for Australia to ask that our supplies of refined fuel, petrol and diesel, and aviation fuel, are guaranteed to us as well. So I think it is appropriate for the Prime Minister to play that card. I'm not sure why it's taken him so long to realise it's a problem and I'm not sure why the United States is not on his itinerary, frankly, because what's changed since 1979, the last time we had a major Iranian crisis, is that the U.S. is now a net exporter of fuel, not a net importer, and they can be part of this solution too.
SHANE MCINNES: Just on the advertising campaign, I would understand it if we were told, all right, now's the stage where we have to start rationing. Here's what you need to do as an Australian to ration fuel. Would you be supportive of an advertising campaign in that instance, whereas at the moment, it seems like, oh, look, we might be short of fuel, we might not be. If you don't have to use it, don't use it. But if you still have to go visit your Nana and Pa, you're still welcome to.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I certainly hope we don't get there, but I think you're right. If we do get to a point where the government does have to ration fuel, then it would be reasonable to communicate to Australians what those restrictions are so that Australians can understand them and comply with them. But frankly, the government is saying we're not there and we may not get there. So what's the justification for this? I think the only explanation is it's about the government's political interests because they started this crisis by playing down the seriousness of it. They even called threats to fuel supply a right-wing extremist piece of misinformation, now they're struggling to catch up from that slow start.
SHANE MCINNES: Chris Bowen spoke earlier today with regard to criticism from the Coalition when it comes to our fuel supply and what the solutions might be. Here's some of what he had to say.
[CLIP START]
THE HON CHRIS BOWEN MP They've chosen potshots over policies, insults over ideas and sledging over solutions. They're just playing politics, and that says a lot about them. I've been dealing with all sorts of proposals to improve fuel supply in Australia. Not one of them has come from the opposition. Have you heard a single constructive suggestion from the Opposition on fuel supply?
[CLIP END]
SHANE MCINNES: Are you playing politics?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I think it's pretty rich for Chris Bowen to accuse anyone else of that, given his track record. And I think the record shows that the only good thing the government has done in this crisis was to cut the fuel excise, which, of course, was a Coalition commitment and a Coalition demand of the government. So they have followed our advice. I'm glad they did. And the question for them will soon be, are they going to keep that fuel excise reduction going forward, or are they going to whack Australians with a big increase in fuel excise in the coming months?
SHANE MCINNES: Would you encourage them to continue that reduction in the excise, given they were so apprehensive about bringing it in in the first instance? And as you say, and I think most people would agree, this Iran conflict shows no sign of ending any time soon. Do you think this is a legitimate means by which the Prime Minister and his government can save Australian households by easing that fuel excise?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well I think the key is what are international oil prices, and what are domestic diesel and petrol prices. If they are still high as they are today, I think there will be a very good case for extending the fuel excise reduction that's in place right now. If they've come back down to more reasonable levels, then I think Australians might be more willing to accept a return to normal excise levels as well.
SHANE MCINNES: You are Shadow Minister for Defence. If the United States were to ask us to help protect the Strait of Hormuz, should we?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That depends on two things, our national interest and the capability and availability of relevant ADF assets, particularly naval assets. I think it is in our national interest for the Strait of Hormuz to be reopened if we're able to contribute to that. But I don't know whether or not we have, for example, suitable surface naval fleet assets that could defend themselves against incoming IRGC rocket fire or drone attacks. Only the government can answer that question, and I think they should.
SHANE MCINNES: Is this something we want to get Australia involved in, though, given both the U.S. and obviously Israel are leading the charge? European nations are standing clear. It doesn't seem as though the U.S. is certainly asking any other nations to be involved at the moment, but is it really something that we want become involved with in Iran?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: We've certainly not advocated being involved in any offensive operations against the Iranian regime, but there is an international coalition being led by the UK and France, which looks at how the Straits can be reopened for naval traffic, commercial naval shipping, after the conflict is over, and Australia has been part of those conversations. I think that is appropriate because we are a country that is very dependent on, particularly, the oil supply coming out of the Persian Gulf into Asian refineries through the Strait of Hormuz, and if it remains closed or if it becomes an IRGC tollbooth where they extort the world, that would be a terrible thing for Australia.
SHANE MCINNES: I want to be careful here, and I know you can't talk directly to the cases. Obviously, charges have been laid against Ben Roberts-Smith. But can I just ask you, as Shadow Defence Minister, a lot has been made about how the arrest was carried out, the fact that it was done within sight of the public, with cameras there. Did you have an issue with how this arrest was made of Ben Roberts-Smith?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yeah, I've observed a very strong public reaction to that in the last couple of days as well. And I think it is appropriate that the Australian Federal Police and the Office for Special Investigator, which conducted this arrest and which have laid these charges, explained to the public why they thought it was operationally necessary to arrest Ben Roberts-Smith at the time and in the circumstances they did. Perhaps they have a good reason for why they did it, when they did and how they did it. But I really think the speculation about it has become unhelpful, and it should be clarified by a public statement by the AFP.
SHANE MCINNES: I think we would agree that any charges against one individual should not reflect on the entirety of the SAS or the wonderful members representing the Australian Defence Force. Are you concerned, though, that in some circles it may?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I am concerned about that. We know that morale is low in the ADF and particularly in the Australian Army because they've borne the brunt of the cuts that this government has done to capability, including infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled howitzers, military satellites, and other capabilities. And we know that this cloud has hung over special forces in particular for two decades now, after Afghanistan. And so I am concerned that it's affecting morale even more. And I think it's critically important that political leaders make the point that 99% of people who served in Afghanistan, including in the special forces, did so honourably and with distinction and are not in any way implicated with the charges against one person who is entitled to the presumption of innocence and a fair trial.
SHANE MCINNES: No, absolutely. I think a lot of people would concur with that. Senator James Paterson, I appreciate your time this afternoon.
ENDS