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Transcripts
April 13, 2026
JAMES WILLIS: James Paterson is the Shadow Defence Minister. He's on the line for us this morning. James, good morning to you.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Great to be with you, James.
JAMES WILLIS: What did you make of those scenes?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, it was uncomfortable, I think, for a lot of Australians to see a highly decorated former soldier arrested for such serious crimes and Mr Roberts-Smith is entitled to the presumption of innocence, and it's critical he get a fair trial, so I won't comment in any way, shape or form on the specifics of his case. But I do understand why Australians were disturbed by those scenes, and I think it is appropriate for the Australian Federal Police and the Office for Special Investigator who have laid these charges to explain why it was operationally necessary to arrest him at the time and place they did.
JAMES WILLIS: Absolutely and I think this is one of the concerns, and again we are putting the legal case to one side, I'm making no judgement on the upcoming legal case in any way this morning, but it was reported over the weekend in the Sydney Morning Herald who have led the charge to air a lot of these allegations against Ben Roberts-Smith and I'll just read this to you to get you to comment on it, James. One well-placed source suggested investigators might have waited to arrest Roberts-Smith in New South Wales because they wanted access to a wider and more diverse jury pool. Roberts-Smith, who clearly knew this was coming, might have preferred a jury in a more conservative state, either his original home of WA or his adopted hometown of Brisbane. Now what the hell is all that about?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I saw that report, and that's one of the reasons why I've called for the AFP to clarify it, because I don't think it is conducive to public confidence in our judicial system if they think that police are forum shopping in a way like that to try and get a more favourable jury. So I do think it's important that they clarify whether that is true or not, and to rule it out if it is not.
JAMES WILLIS: I mean, at the same time, you've got this Office of the Special Investigator, which was established five years ago, has been given tens of millions of dollars of funding, and their one role is to attempt to secure and find and prove war crimes by Australian soldiers. In five years there's been two soldiers charged, Ben Roberts-Smith is the second one and so I mean, at the same time, they have been desperate for a long period of time to secure convictions, and my view is, and I'm not sure whether you want to comment on this, James, but the role of the OSI and the performance of the OSI needs to be scrutinised as well, separate to the Ben Roberts-Smith case, but just do we need them? I mean, do we really need an outfit taxpayer funded to be investigating war crimes many years after Australia left Afghanistan?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I think we do pride ourselves on being a rule of law country, and we're all subject to the rule of law, including our men and women in uniform who serve overseas. So I don't think it's an option to just say we won't enforce our own laws or uphold our own standards. But I think it is fair to ask questions about the length of time that this has taken and the amount of money that has been spent, because for many soldiers in our special forces, both the SAS and the Commandos, this has been a dark cloud hanging over them and their units for many years. And many of these people have never been accused of any crimes, will never be charged with any crimes and yet they feel like judgement has been passed on them, and that is not only unfair but it's corrosive to the spirit of service that we want in our country. We want people to be proud to serve in our ADF. We want them to be proud to serve in special forces in particular, and many of these people did extraordinary acts of heroism in service of our country and its values, and they don't deserve to have this hang over them for so long.
JAMES WILLIS: But culminating with his arrest, you must be concerned as the Shadow Defence Minister about the fact that right now we are thousands of troops short of our operational capability. There is an issue encouraging young people to join the military, they don't want to sign up. We've got a global situation of great uncertainty, there are concerns about how the world is moving at this point in time. We're thousands of soldiers short, and people will be looking at this and see how our highest decorated soldier was treated with his arrest and at the same time, the wider investigations by the OSI and the AFP, I mean, I don't know James, you must be wondering who would want to join up at a time like this.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I am incredibly concerned about the recruitment and retention crisis that we're facing in the ADF. It is particularly bad in Army, and morale is incredibly low, and one of the reasons for that is, of course, issues like this, but it is also because the Albanese government has slashed the capability of the Australian Army. They've cancelled or reduced orders for things like infantry fighting vehicles, military communication satellites, they've even reduced the number of days a reservist can serve per year from 200 days down to 150. And right now they're running around the country conducting a fire sale of some of the most important heritage assets the Australian Defence Force owns including the Victoria Barracks in Sydney. I mean, no serious country sells off its military heritage, so I am not surprised that morale is low, that retention is low, and that recruitment is struggling.
JAMES WILLIS: But you'll have empty sites, and you'll have empty war machines if we don't have enough recruits. This is a disaster. And I've spoken to a number of people that have considered joining the military, or mums and dads that have spoken to their kids about, do they want to join the military? Do they want join the police force, the emergency services? And after this, no one wants to touch it. The Brereton report has been disastrous for the idea of recruitment.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think it's really important to say, though, that 99% of men and women who've served in uniform haven't faced any sort of investigation, sanctions, let alone charges.
JAMES WILLIS: No, but they've all been smeared. There was talk of thousands of medals being stripped when you guys were in power a few years ago. I mean, it was terrible.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I agree, and Peter Dutton took action as Defence Minister to make sure that did not happen because that would have been a body blow for already low morale in the ADF, and this is a time in history where we cannot afford for that to be the case. We face very serious threats and challenges as a country. Serious people like Sir Angus Houston tell us this is the most dangerous time since the end of World War II. We need the ADF to be as strong as it has ever been. We need recruitment to be flying. We need equipment to be delivered into the hands of our soldiers, and yet the opposite is the case right now, and so I do share those profound concerns that many Australians have.
JAMES WILLIS: Just lastly, this ad has been rolled out across the country today.
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NATIONAL FUEL SECURITY PLAN AD: Simple actions like pumping up your tyres, removing things you don't need from the boot, running more errands in fewer trips, and only filling up with the fuel you need, can help make our supply go further and save fuel for our truckies, farmers, and essential services.
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JAMES WILLIS: James, it's a 20 million dollar campaign designed to encourage all of us to do our bit and save fuel where we can. Have you taken the roof racks off the car this morning?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Mate, that is patronising political propaganda from the Albanese government. When petrol is more than two dollars a litre and diesel is more than three dollars a litre, Australians know you shouldn't spend more than you need to on your fuel bill. And what they want the government to do is make sure that we get the fuel we need, it goes to the service stations where they want to fill up, and prices come down. And 20 million dollars lecturing them about how to drive is the last thing they need in a crisis like this.
JAMES WILLIS: We really appreciate your time. Thank you.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me.
ENDS