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August 18, 2025
MARK LEVY: Senator Paterson, good morning to you.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Great to be with you, Mark.
MARK LEVY: Well, I said off the top of the program that when you've got the Business Council of Australia in the same room as the union, we've got competing ideologies. This is just going to end up a stalemate, is it not?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Mark, we're participating in good faith because we agree with the government that we have a productivity crisis in this country, and it's smashing Australians' living standards. In their first term in office, we went back a decade in living standards, and we can't afford for that to happen again. But I have to say we're participating now more in hope than expectation. I'm really worried that this is going to be a complete flop and not deal with any of the serious economic problems in our country.
MARK LEVY: Is it designed, Senator, to buy the government some more time? I mean, they've been in power for, what, three, nearly four years now, and they seem to just keep kicking this productivity issue and the economy down the road.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Honestly, Mark, I'm not sure the government knows themselves what they want to achieve out of this roundtable, because remember, it was first a productivity roundtable. Then it was going to be a tax reform roundtable. Now it's an economic summit. And Jim Chalmers, the Treasurer, has had to be humiliatingly reined in by the Prime Minister because his loose talk allowed expectations to get completely out of control. And the Prime Minister had to reassert that, in fact, just because this was meeting in the cabinet room doesn't mean it was a cabinet meeting, and then ultimately the government would make decisions about what would happen, not this roundtable. So I'm not sure the government has any clear idea about what's going to come out of this. In fact, the only concrete policy idea that seems to have any traction is an election commitment that the Coalition took to the last election to freeze the National Construction Code, which is a massive piece of red tape that drives up the cost of housing and slows down approvals, and that was a policy that Labor ridiculed during the election, but they now look like they're going to adopt through this roundtable.
MARK LEVY: I want to play you something. Treasurer Jim Chalmers has had a bit to say this morning, and I'm told he was asked if he can promise that there will be no new taxes introduced as a result of this economic roundtable meeting starting tomorrow. This is what he said.
[CLIP START]
TREASURER JIM CHALMERS: Well, we're cutting taxes. And that was at stake in the election. We went to the election, having cut taxes once and proposing to cut taxes two more times. We cut taxes last year. We're cutting them next year. We're coming in the year after. And that wasn't staking the election because our opponents wanted to increase taxes on 14 million taxpaying working Australians. And so that's the primary focus of our tax policy. We're also doing work with the states and territories on EV road user charging. We've been upfront about that before and after the election as well. So our tax agenda is cutting taxes for people who work hard to pay the bills and to provide for their loved ones. And that's the difference between us and our political opponents. Thanks very much.
[CLIP END]
MARK LEVY: Geez, he wrapped it up quickly for more reports, too, after that question, Senator. Look, I understand how politics works, right, and you know, there's a reliance on blaming the other side for what's happened previously, but we're talking about a government now that's been in charge for three years, and the Treasurer is asked quite clearly, will there be any new taxes under or after this economic roundtable? And he can't answer the question.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, exactly right, Mark. And you and I both know, and I suspect your listeners do too, Jim Chalmers would love nothing more than the opportunity to raise taxes. He's admitted his own budget is completely unsustainable because of the new spending that Labor added in their first term. He has got no plan to pay for that, and he certainly doesn't want to reduce waste and inefficiency in government and bring that spending down. So his only way to balance the budget is by raising taxes, and he's trying to convince the Prime Minister to let him do it. But let's be clear, Labor has no mandate for higher taxes. And a hand-picked roundtable in Canberra won't give them the mandate that they failed to earn from the Australian people at the election.
MARK LEVY: Ted O'Brien, the Shadow Treasurer, will be at the summit tomorrow. Have you spoken to Mr. O'Brien? Will he be given the opportunity to present any ideas? I mean, has the Coalition got any ideas that they want to put on this roundtable?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I hope Ted gets a chance to get a word in because I think he'll be one of the only voices in the room arguing for lower taxes, not higher taxes, given how much the government has stacked the agenda with speakers who will argue for higher taxes. But you can rely on the Coalition to argue for lower, fairer, simpler taxes. And Ted set that out very clearly in a speech at the Menzies Research Centre on Friday. The principles that will guide us is we want the government to stop their reckless spending spree, which is adding to the intergenerational debt burden, and we want them to bring forward policy ideas that grow the economic pie for everyone. And if they do that, they'll have our enthusiastic bipartisan support.
MARK LEVY: So has Ted O'Brien been invited to speak, though, or is he just an observer?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, I'd be surprised if Ted gets much of an opportunity to get a word in. He's certainly not presenting, but there are, as I understand it, going to be discussions around the table, and hopefully he gets a chance to be called upon.
MARK LEVY: So what's the point of him being there if he's not getting an opportunity to speak?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I think Ted's going to have to find the opportunity to speak because otherwise, as I said, no one's going to be arguing for lower taxes, not higher taxes, but he's certainly not presenting. The government has hand-picked presenters; they have picked people who they know will argue for their case, whether it's the Grattan Institute or the Productivity Commission on higher taxes, but that's not our agenda.
MARK LEVY: All right, while I've got you, Senator, before you go. A meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin took place over the course of the weekend. Anthony Albanese was a part of a phone hookup with some of these world leaders who are supporting Ukraine. Where's the opposition on this, and what did you make of the meeting on the weekend?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: We maintain our consistent, long-held support for Ukraine and their sovereignty against Russia's illegal and unjust invasion. And it's critically important that the Australian government continue to do everything we can to support Ukraine, including using our voice with our friends in Washington to make the case that it is Putin and Russia who are the bad actors here and who should end their invasion, not Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians. That, of course, would be easier if our Prime Minister could somehow find his way to Washington D.C. and meet with President Trump. We're now more than 280 days since the President was elected, and the Prime Minister hasn't bothered to meet with him.
MARK LEVY: One last one. The polling out today, and look, I don't know how much weight you give to polls, Senator, but am I missing something? Support for Labor climbs to its highest level in two years, with voters believing the government is focused on the right issues. We've got a Prime Minister at the moment who is more interested in the war in the Middle East, in recognising a Palestinian state which has absolutely nothing to do with Australia, when he should be focusing on the cost of living crisis. I mean obviously you're still unsure of what your policy position is because you're reviewing what's going on, but really? Labor's support climbs to its highest level in two years?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm not terribly surprised by the polls, Mark. Labor has just had a big election win, and it's common in those circumstances for there to be a bit of an afterglow, a bit of a honeymoon. But I think in time Australians will see this is a government which has no solutions to the problems facing them in their lives. They've got no plan to get the cost of living under control. They have no plan to get our economy growing again. They really earned no mandate from the Australian people at the election because they took no agenda to the election and they're going to run out of steam very quickly.
MARK LEVY: How long before we find out some policy announcements from the Coalition, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: One thing we've been very clear about already, very early, is that we're committed to higher defence spending. We're standing by our policy at the last election to lift Australia's spending to 3% of GDP.
MARK LEVY: I can't get a straight answer out of anyone on net zero, though.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, we're going through that process, and you'll get an answer on that soon. We've got two and a half years to the next election.
MARK LEVY: When? Yeah, but see, this is the problem, right, with respect, Senator. I mean, you say that you've got two and a half years until the next election, but people want a clear difference, and they want a definitive position from the Coalition on net zero. And, you know, I respectfully suggest to you that the longer you wait, the more people just think, well, how hard is it to realise that we are heading down a slippery slope when it comes to the pursuit of net zero, which is unrealistic, and all the while we're paying amongst the most expensive electricity bills in the world. You can't wait two and a half years. I mean, you need to get to a position sooner rather than later.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm not suggesting for a second that we should wait for two and a half years to unveil our policy on net zero or anything else.
MARK LEVY: So are we talking weeks or months?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It's not my place to say that on behalf of my colleagues, it's not my portfolio, as you know, Mark. But what I'm saying is, we just suffered the worst electoral defeat for the Liberal Party in 80 years. We do need to take our time to get it right; we're not rushing prematurely into any policy positions. And well before the next election, well before anyone has to contemplate their vote, they'll have a very clear alternative agenda from the Liberal Party, I commit to that.
MARK LEVY: All right, fantastic. Well, Senator, you're one of the leading lights in a, well, a much thinner opposition these days. I always thank you for jumping on the line, and I know my listeners enjoy hearing from you as well. Thanks so much for joining us.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks mate, good to be with you.
ENDS