March 21, 2023
DAVID KOCH: TikTok could soon be banned from all government-issued devices. The Home Affairs Minister is considering a new security review which is expected to recommend Australia follow the US, UK and New Zealand in restricting the social media platform. The popular app is owned by Beijing based company ByteDance. It's caused concern due to its handling of user data and privacy, with the app storing personal information including your browsing history, locations and biometric identifiers. And there are fears that it could be offered up to the Chinese government. Joining us now, the Shadow Minister for Cyber Security and Countering Foreign Interference, Senator James Paterson. Is TikTok posing a threat to our national security, do you reckon?
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning, Kochie. I certainly welcome the reports today that the government might be soon about to ban TikTok from government devices. But unfortunately, media speculation alone doesn't protect us from this threat, only action from the government. So, I hope that swiftly follows. It does pose a serious national security threat in two respects. One is the way in which it handles data and the espionage risk that comes from that. And the second is the risk of foreign interference in that it reaches millions of Australians with a non-transparent algorithm that could be used to promote narratives supportive of the Chinese Communist Party and suppressed ones that are critical of it.
KOCH: But TikTok itself, the management and executives say they work within the law. In fact, globally, one of the head honcho's of TikTok is an Aussie and she's appeared in front of government inquiries in the US. Why don't you believe them?
PATERSON: Well, they do work within the law and one of the laws they have to work within is China's 2017 National Intelligence law because they are headquartered in China and therefore subject to those laws. And what those laws require is that all Chinese citizens and companies cooperate with China's intelligence services and keep that cooperation secret. So, if they're asked by the Chinese government to hand over the data on Australian citizen, they will have to comply and we will never know. TikTok Australia may never know that their parent company is engaging in this cooperation, and that exposes Australians to very real personal security and privacy risks.
KOCH: Okay, so the management may not know when Chinese authorities tap in. Also, while we've got you, there are reports today a number of federal and state MPs have a burner phone so that they can still use TikTok. Do you have a have a burner phone? Is that something you have to get around all of this?
PATERSON: I don't have a burner phone and I don't use TikTok because I do regard it as a very serious national security threat. But the advice that federal parliamentarians have received in the past from the Australian Signals Directorate is that one of the ways to mitigate or reduce the risk but not eliminate it is to have TikTok on a separate phone for your normal phone that has your accounts and other sensitive material, but that doesn't work for millions of Australians. They're not all going to go get a second phone. We need protections in place for them too.
KOCH: Yeah. So, what's your advice to parents at home or parents with their kids fines or even their own phone? A lot of adults are getting on TikTok at the moment. Do you just delete the app but seeing's you've had it on there, is that enough? You just can't get rid of it. Is it too late?
PATERSON: Deleting it is the best thing you can do if you're worried about your privacy, personal security and safety. It can't harvest your data if it's not on your phone. Never downloading it in the first place or deleting it if you have it is the best thing you can do to protect yourself.
KOCH: Certainly don't share your contacts with it. All right. Thank you for that.
PATERSON: Thanks Kochie.
ENDS
