Media
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Transcripts
December 8, 2025
SHARRI MARKSON: The story today, Anika Wells engulfed in a scandal and Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson joins me now. James, thank you very much for your time. We've seen a raft of new revelations in the papers tonight, the Courier Mail and the Herald. What do you think is now most significant? Because you know, we're approaching what, some sort of eight examples over concerns about her travel and expenses.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Sharri, I'm following this story closely, and honestly, I've got to say I'm struggling to keep up with all the new revelations, with all the new instances of Anika Wells gleefully spending public money for her own personal benefit in violation of all reasonable community standards. Two of those stories you pointed out that have gone up tonight, one in the Courier Mail and other News Limited tabloids, about how she failed to declare almost a dozen events, including the Logies, various grand finals and other sporting events, Oasis tickets. You know, she won't be the first or last politician to be late on a declaration, but so many in one go really indicates, you know, poor judgment on her part. And then the other in The Herald and The Age was in relation to her attending the birthday party of the late former MP Peta Murphy, which she has charged to taxpayers' expense and appears to have concocted some pretence of a visit around it. The problem for her is three other Labor MPs attended that same event, and every single one of them paid their own way. They didn't attempt to charge it to taxpayers like she has. So this has now become a crisis. She has become completely engulfed in it, and there's no escaping it except for taking personal responsibility.
SHARRI MARKSON: I mean, you said that there at the start of that answer that this is in violation of community standards. Does that mean that you don't think it has breached parliamentary guidelines?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think it's entirely possible it has breached parliamentary guidelines and also has breached the Ministerial Code of Conduct, which is an even higher bar. And I think the Prime Minister should refer it to both the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority and he should commission his own review to see whether she's upheld the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Because both of them require that you spend money, mindful of community expectations of the expense of that money, and be willing to publicly justify it. Now I cannot understand how you could justify spending a $1000 in Paris on a meal and $750 on alcohol at that meal. Anika Wells said to Andrew Clennell on Sunday that she thought she had fallen asleep at the table. Did she fall asleep at the table because she drank $750 worth of alcohol on the taxpayer tab? I mean, honestly, this is becoming a joke.
SHARRI MARKSON: Wow. Wow. Well, that is a big question that you've just raised there. Let's see if she is asked about that tomorrow. Just before we move on to other topics like the ISIS brides, the Thredbo ski holiday, do you think this is within the spirit of the family entitlement?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: No, it's not. The vast majority of parliamentarians use the family reunion entitlement to bring their families to them in sitting weeks in Canberra. And occasionally, if they're delivering a speech in another capital city or attending a conference, they get their spouse and their children to fly to visit to spend time with them. I think that's what the public would tolerate, although they might think even that's a bit generous, but they certainly wouldn't tolerate, nor should they tolerate, politicians using it to pay for family holidays. And clearly, if you're going to Thredbo, even if you have an official event there, if you want to bring your husband and your children with you to that event so that they can go skiing, then really that's a family holiday, and that should be paid for at your own expense and not the taxpayer's expense.
SHARRI MARKSON: All right, let's turn to the ISIS brides. And we broke this story on this show last week that Tony Burke said in a private meeting that he wouldn't block the return of ISIS brides. He also asked a Home Affairs official to leave the room for a private conversation with the organisation Save the Children, which was trying to repatriate the ISIS brides and their families. Now, James, you've been leading the charge on this. You asked questions about this at Senate estimates based on a tip off, which is completely extraordinary. What's your reaction to how damning these new revelations are?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Tony Burke should be sending a nice bottle of French champagne to Anika Wells to thank her for taking him off the front pages, and frankly, also making him look good in retrospect for paying back that money for his own Uluru family holiday back in 2012. But this is a really serious matter, and we're going to continue to prosecute it and pursue it. Because Tony Burke told the public one thing about his state of knowledge and the government's commitment to bringing back these ISIS members to Australia, but these documents show something entirely different. They show that he was very well versed in the plans to bring them back, that he effectively gave it a green light, that he thanked the charity for keeping it out of the media, that he said that assistance would be provided when they got home, that he said there'd be no blockages to them coming home. And even after all of that incriminating evidence now released on the public record, there are further things he wanted to say in private to this charity without a public servant present. We still don't know what was said in that private part of the meeting, but I think the public has a right to know.
SHARRI MARKSON: And the fact that you got a tip off about this shows that there was obviously anger behind the scenes. James, just finally, I want to turn to your brilliant Senate estimates interrogations last week. Now you questioned the head of the public service on its failure to keep proper records. Have a look.
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SHARRI MARKSON: And this reminds me of the Ros Kelly whiteboard scandal in the 90's. Just a quick answer to this because I want to play one more interaction before we go.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, that's Dr. Gordon De Brouwer. He's the head of the Australian Public Service Commission. It's his job to set and enforce standards for public servants. And until he was challenged, he was basically saying it's fine not to keep records of advice to ministers, which is unconscionable.
SHARRI MARKSON: Another moment involved you grilling Katy Gallagher over a letter detailing the government's 5% cuts across the public service. Have a look.
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SHARRI MARKSON: Oh, James, not the only time she struggled to answer your questions last week.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: If Rob Sitch and the Utopia team wrote that in a script for their TV show, they would think it was too implausible and that no politician would try to get away with that. But that's what Katy Gallagher tried to get away with. And it actually speaks to a deeper culture of secrecy and aversion to transparency in this Albanese government. They promised that they would be the most open and transparent government ever. But I think we are going to all now see they are anything but.
SHARRI MARKSON: Yeah. Well, you did an extraordinary job last week, as always. Thank you so much for joining us.
ENDS