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February 2, 2026
MARK LEVY: I thought we'd catch up with the Shadow Finance Minister, Senator James Paterson. He's been good enough to join us on this Monday morning. Senator Paterson, good morning to you.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Great to be with you, Mark.
MARK LEVY: Well, look, there's no escaping the political firestorm to come this week. As the Parliament returns, leadership rumblings in the Liberals and the Nationals, the RBA is expected to raise the cash rate. The polling continues to get worse for your side of politics. Your head spinning, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: No, it's not, mate, to be honest, I understand why political intrigue is of interest to people in the Canberra Press Gallery and those who obsessively focus on politics, but as you know, if you're a mortgage holder, or indeed if you are a renter, this could be a very bad week for you and your family and your household budget. Already, you're paying $21,000 more a year than you were when Labor was elected, and if interest rates rise again, on an average mortgage, that's thousands of dollars more a year that's going to hit your family budget.
MARK LEVY: Alright, you say the Canberra Press Gallery is interested, but conservative voters are interested too, with respect Senator, and I mean the Redbridge polling today, support for the Libs and Nats has fallen from 26% to 19%, Sussan Ley's leadership hanging by a thread with her personal approval rating now 9%, I mean surely you'd concede that paints a grim picture for Sussan Ley and the Liberal Party, surely?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm certainly not going to insult your intelligence or the intelligence of your listeners and pretend everything is going well. We have a very, very big task ahead of us as a Liberal Party and that is to make the case that we deserve the trust and support of people who have traditionally supported us but also swing voters who want to know that if they vote Liberal that they will be better off and the country will be stronger. And we've got a lot of work to do to convince them of that over the next two years.
MARK LEVY: You've been around politics long enough to know that polling would indicate your leader's position is untenable. Your colleague Ted O'Brien says he backs Sussan Ley, but also said there would not be a spill this week. That leaves next week wide open. Where are you at? What can you tell our rusted on conservative listeners that want some answers in relation to the Liberal Party? What's going to happen this week or next?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, speaking for myself, I support Sussan as leader. I wouldn't be remaining as a member of the front bench if I didn't support her. I'm not anticipating a spill motion this week either. And if one were moved tomorrow, I would vote against it, and I would urge all my colleagues to vote against it because, although, yes, of course, the leader bears important responsibility for where we find ourselves right now, we all bear responsibility for where we are right now, it's a collective responsibility, and I accept my share of that responsibility as well.
MARK LEVY: So what was discussed at that meeting last week you were at, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Obviously mate I'm not going to publicly disclose what was supposed to be a private meeting. Obviously, Liam Mendes at The Australian had different ideas, and he is an enterprising young journo, so full credit to him, but I'm going to disclose private discussions.
MARK LEVY: Was it about leadership?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, colleagues across the party are discussing where we are right now because of the polls and what we need to do to get on top of that. And overwhelmingly, I think what we needed to do to get on top of that is actually policy. It's actually offering and articulating a clear contrast to a very bad government in Canberra that is ultimately making Australians pay more, pay more for their mortgages, more for electricity, more for groceries, more for everything.
MARK LEVY: There's a lot of criticism being levelled at the Liberal Party for having that meeting on the same day as the late Katie Allen's funeral. Do you concede the timing was pretty poor?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, look, I don't want to shock you or your listeners, Mark, but when politicians get together from time to time, we discuss politics. And I'm sure that wasn't the only conversation about politics that took place on that day.
MARK LEVY: Alright, look, when it comes to the speculation around leadership and the like, I won't ask you about the Nationals because you'll say that it's their problem and not yours, but there are some people writing to me, James, and saying, why are they waiting? Why not pull the trigger now, draw a line in the sand, and just get on with the job of holding the government to account? Instead, this week there'll be more speculation when you should really be holding the government to account because of a rise in inflation and a potential interest rate rise. And you're only going to have, what, three or four questions to hold the government to account in question time. It's going to be difficult.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: You're right, it is going to be difficult and the Coalition being split makes our task harder and I think really we all understand that and I think reforming the Coalition on acceptable terms to both Liberals and Nationals should be a priority for all of us this week because we are better together and we are better when we're focusing our fire on Labor. It's the government that we need to hold to account, and it's the government that we hopefully seek to replace.
MARK LEVY: I think Andrew Bolt makes a couple of really good points in his piece today in the Telegraph in relation to where we're at as far as the economy is concerned, and look, Jim Chalmers, we know he's got a master's in political spin. I mean, he'd spin his way out of a wet paper bag. But, you know, Andrew makes the point today, and he asked the questions, are Australians financially better off under Jim Chalmers' policies? Is inflation low? Are interest rates falling? Is debt falling? Is productivity rising? Are electricity prices low? The answer to all those questions is no. Yet Jim Chalmers continues to stand at press conferences, James, and say, oh, look, we're doing a great job, everything's sweet, but the hardworking Australians who are really, really struggling with this cost of living crisis, they're demanding some answers. It's not good enough.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I agree with you. I think Andrew Bolt is spot on. I mean, Jim Chalmers is the smoothest talker in this business. There's no doubt about that. He can spin his way out of a wet paper bag, as you say. But actually, what's happening to Australians' household budgets and household finances on Jim Chalmers' watch? He took a victory lap when interest rates were coming down. There have been three interest rate cuts so far, but if they go up, he'll have to take responsibility for that too, because every economist out there commentating on this right now says one of the big factors contributing to inflation rising and therefore possibly an interest rate increase is government spending. And Jim Chalmers has presided over the biggest proportion of government spending as a share of our economy in 40 years outside of a recession and he's got to wear that.
MARK LEVY: It's incredible and you know I mentioned the term cost of living that was supposed to be the main focus admittedly we've had a few other significant issues to deal with of late but you know you look at cost of living, electricity prices the cost of living crisis has got worse over the last four years which just how happens to be the last 4 years of a Labor Albanese government I mean it's there for everyone to see, nothing is improving James.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: And four years of Chris Bowen being Energy Minister, driving up electricity prices, there are some families who are paying $1300 to $1400 more in energy costs than Labor promised that they would and that's hurting them immensely, just as the $21,000 of extra interest repayments that they're making on an average loan of $600,000, and we know a lot of families are bearing a much greater burden of debt than that.
MARK LEVY: I wanted to ask you about Home Affairs, and look, I know you're the Shadow Finance Minister, but you and I have spoken in the past about a decision to, you know, split up the Home Affairs Department and shift ASIO, AFP under different portfolios. The opposition is now calling for this to be looked at as part of the coming Royal Commission. What's your take on this, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: National security policy in the first term of the Albanese government was an utter shambles. They made three changes to the machinery of government arrangements under Home Affairs in three years. When they were first elected, they took the Federal Police and the Criminal Intelligence Commission out of the Home Affairs portfolio and put it on the Attorney General's portfolio. When Clare O'Neil was sacked as Home Affairs Minister, ASIO followed and went into the Attorney General's portfolio. But after the election, they all went back into the Home Affairs portfolio, back to where they found it three years ago and that turmoil resulted in real policy problems. The time it took to list a terrorist organisation blew out to months when under the previous government, it only took weeks. There was one terrorism listing that occurred without the Home Affairs Minister even signing off on it, even though they were responsible for counter-terrorism. And I'm told that time again that the Home Affairs Minister O'Neil couldn't get access to the relevant people in the Federal Police that she needed to fulfil her responsibilities on counter-terrorism. So it was a shambles, and the Royal Commission must get to the bottom of why these changes were made and why the Prime Minister reversed his decisions.
MARK LEVY: Maybe it's the reason why he's been dragged kicking and screaming to a Royal Commission because he knows exactly what's going to come out of it. We will watch this space. One last one before you go, are you across these rumours swirling that Cory Bernardi could be back as a Senator running this time for One Nation? Have you had any whispers or heard any whispers about that, Senator?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I've seen those reports, and I served with Cory in the Senate when he was a Liberal Senator, when he was an Independent Senator, and when he was a Conservative Party Senator, and now perhaps he's seeking to return as a One Nation Senator. That would be his third or fourth iteration in politics. In fact, the reason why Cory founded the Conservative Party all those years ago was to try and stop One Nation, so it's a hell of an about face for Cory, but we'll see how he goes.
MARK LEVY: Alright, well, it's going to be a big week, James. It's going to be a big week. Thanks for joining us, mate. I know you've got a busy few days ahead of you. Appreciate your time as always.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Cheers.
ENDS