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December 10, 2025
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KIERAN GILBERT: Let's hear now from the Coalition. The Shadow Finance Minister, Senator James Paterson, is with me. Let's start with this major announcement at Kirribilli House. The Prime Minister giving a shout out to your former leader, Peter Dutton, for being very supportive of this throughout. What's the Coalition's position today?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I'm proud that we voted for this legislation in Parliament. I'm proud that Peter Dutton didn't just support it as opposition leader, but frankly led the debate and announced our support for this approach before the government adopted it as their policy, because we strongly believe in the principle that social media is not a safe place for children. Children should not be on social media for all the very powerful reasons that Florence articulated there in her speech at the event. It has an impact on developing brains. There are enormous mental health harms that come from it, and sometimes it even ends in tragedy. Having said that, I am concerned about the way in which the government, in particular Anika Wells as Minister, has implemented this. You've seen in your reporting by Trudy McIntosh just earlier that there are other social media platforms that are not included in this ban that are booming today, that are the number one downloaded apps online, because the government has made strange choices to include some apps but not include others. And if all this does is drive people away from more mainstream social media channels like Facebooks and Instagrams and YouTubes of the world, to more marginal social media channels that are probably even less safe, then I don't think we've made any improvements. I think the government is going to have to have a watching brief on this and adapt it as necessary to make sure it's working.
KIERAN GILBERT: Yeah, isn't that the inevitable nature of these things when you're dealing with such a movable feast like technology and social media that they will have to, as you say, in your words, keep a watching brief on it. That's sort of almost inevitable, isn't it, given the nature of it?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I agree with that, Kieran, but some of it is so self evident that I think greater steps could have been taken to anticipate it. I mean, some of those social media platforms that I won't name here that have been rising on the app stores’ download list today, people have been warning about them for weeks. People have been saying these are the kind of platforms that children will migrate to continue to be online in defiance of the ban. And so the government has the power by regulation to include or exclude different social media platforms. There's nothing stopping the minister from doing it today or yesterday or last week, except I think, frankly, the distraction of her expenses scandal, which really has meant she hasn't had her eye on the ball.
KIERAN GILBERT: And on the expenses question, the Prime Minister is backing her in 100%. He says that sports ministers go to sports events. Shock, horror, that's the nature of these things. Is there any clear breach here of the rules?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Kieran, I thought the performance of the Prime Minister on Morning TV this morning was frankly pretty arrogant and contemptuous. And there is a real sense from this government that they had a big election win and they can basically get away with anything, including spending $100,000 flying to New York City to speak for six and a half minutes, including having a meal out in Paris at taxpayers' expense that cost $1,000 for food and $750 for alcohol, and including keeping Comcar drivers waiting up to ten hours while you're at a sporting event in a corporate box sipping free champagne. I mean, the Labor Party is supposed to be the party of workers. Frankly, I think that treatment of Comcar drivers is just rude, whether it's within the rules or not. And so I don't think it's sufficient that it's been referred to IPEA only for an independent investigation. I think there's a chance the Ministerial Code of Conduct has also been breached. It should be referred to the Secretary of PM&C to investigate, and Minister Wells should stand aside while that investigation takes place, as is standard practice.
KIERAN GILBERT: There is clearly going to be a return of serve from the government to the Coalition. You know how these things work as well as I do. We've both been around politics long enough and already the likes of Melissa McIntosh copping a bit of government fire. This is where it's going ahead, though, isn't it? The government would have, and it has more resources at its disposal to be doing the requisite digging right now.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Sure Kieran, There is 59 staff in the Prime Minister's office. I'm sure for most of the last week, all of them have been trawling through expense reports. But the examples that are on the public record so far of Coalition colleagues really pale into comparison to Anika Wells. I mean, Melissa McIntosh is a good example. The travel of hers that has been pointed to, she pre-cleared it with IPEA. She transparently declared to IPEA what the nature of that travel was and went back and forth with them until they were comfortable that she should do it. And even still, the expense was a tiny fraction of Anika Wells' expense. I mean, Melissa McIntosh would have to take hundreds of trips like that before she even managed to catch up to you know, one set of flights to New York City for Anika Wells, let alone all her other expenses. So there may well be examples on the Coalition's side, but I really think Anika Wells is in a class of her own here. I don't know anyone else who has spent as much money as she has, as extravagantly as she has, in total defiance of community expectations. And I wonder, seriously, whether they're within the rules. I mean, concocting a series of events around your own birthday or your friend's birthdays to travel at taxpayers' expense just is not within the spirit of the rules at all.
KIERAN GILBERT: In terms of being a, you know, a young mother, some young kids, the husband going to various events, she made the point today, Anika Wells, that there are multiple other, the vast bulk of her commitments, there is no family member there. Do you know, as a sports minister, do we have to take a different set of expectations, I guess, and especially, you know, as a young mother?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I would say two points here, Kieran. I am not one of those people who say that family reunion travel should be abolished altogether. I think it is appropriate, and I think it does make it easier for young parents, myself included, to have a parliamentary career and still have a family life. And I have used it, for example, for my family to come to Canberra. And I think it could also be appropriate from time to time in other cities as well, depending on the circumstances. But I don't think that the Boxing Day test, the AFL grand final, the Australian Open, the NRL grand final, the Logies and Oasis tickets are really consistent with reasonable community expectations here. And I think that, particularly when you also fail to disclose those tickets in a timely way, and you only disclose them when the media asks about it. And I think we should also remember, as Phil Coorey has written this week in the Financial Review, Anika Wills actively sought this portfolio. It's not a hardship posting. She wanted to be the Sports Minister. She enjoys being the Sports Minister. She has a reputation for loving attending these events, and that's a choice that she made when she said to the Prime Minister after the election, please let me keep the sports portfolio.
KIERAN GILBERT: James Paterson, Shadow Finance Minister, appreciate it. Talk to you soon.
ENDS