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Transcripts
December 4, 2025
PETER STEFANOVIC: For more reaction now. The Shadow Finance Minister, James Paterson, joins us. Good to see you this morning, James. So what questions remain for you this morning?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, good morning, Pete. This is a very significant story and a very serious matter, and these documents actually came about as a result of questions I asked in the last round of Senate estimates because we had heard that there was this unusual meeting between the Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke, and the charity Save the Children, which was advocating bringing ISIS members and their children home to Australia, and that at some point a member of the Home Affairs team, a public servant, was asked to leave the meeting. Now I think these documents are incriminating enough on their face. I think they show that the government knew much more than they let on, that they gave effectively a green light to bringing ISIS members home to our country. But what is it that Tony Burke wanted to say to Save the Children that he didn't want a public servant present in the room for? It's already bad enough what we know that happened while the public servant was in the room. But we can only imagine what happened after the public servant left the room. And that's the question that Tony Burke must front up and answer today. What happened in this secret part of the meeting?
PETER STEFANOVIC: So, I asked Richard Marles about that earlier. He didn't take any issue with that because there are often one-to-one meetings.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I don't know where Richard Marles gets his comfort from. Already, we know in this meeting that Tony Burke told Save the Children that the government would put up no obstacles, that there would be no barriers if Save the Children tried to bring these members of ISIS back into our country. We also know that the Minister said there might be a way that we should facilitate the provision of passports to these people overseas to facilitate their return to Australia. We also know that the minister told Save the Children that there would be assistance for these ISIS members once they returned home, once they're in our country. And then, even with all this incriminating evidence while a public servant was in the room, there was something else that Tony Burke wanted to say to Save the Children, but he didn't want it recorded. He didn't want it said in front of a public servant. He wanted it to be secret, and I think every Australian should be concerned about what that was.
PETER STEFANOVIC: So the line from the government is still that they are keeping this at arm's length, that they didn't have a role in the repatriation. But there is this quote that seems to contradict that though, right? The commitment to find a way, there's a commitment to find a way. I mean, that puts them in it, doesn't it?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, there's also a lot of other incriminating things in addition to that comment, like the Minister thanks Save the Children for keeping this out of the media. He says he doesn't want public attention on this. Why would a Minister for Home Affairs, whose duty is to protect the Australian people, want to keep this information secret from the public? I think Australians have a right to know if people who left our country went to join a terrorist death cult want to now return to our country. And I think, frankly, the Australian government should be putting obstacles in their way. They should be putting blockages in their way. They should be doing everything to deter and discourage these people from coming back to our country, because they were part of one of the most murderous death cults we've ever seen in modern history. And yet Tony Burke was encouraging, giving a green light, and effectively facilitating the return of these people to Australia and wanting to keep it hush hush.
PETER STEFANOVIC: And now there is a report suggesting the Americans will have to help evacuate the remaining ISIS brides.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, that's the thing that we need the acting Prime Minister or the Prime Minister when he comes back from leave to be really clear about. Are we cooperating in further operations with the U.S. government to return further ISIS members to our country? I mean, the government really needs to come clean about this. They can't just take a hands off attitude here. They talk about self assisted returns like it's a self managed super fund. No, no, this is Australia's national security. This is our community safety. We need a government which is actively taking all steps, using all available powers to protect us from people who joined a terrorist organisation.
PETER STEFANOVIC: All right, just a few other matters, James, too. Anika Wells, that's a hefty bill, those flights to New York, ninety-five grand. I mean, I put the question to Marles earlier, did Corporate Travel Management book those? Because they seem pretty large.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: A good and fair question, and I wasn't given any confidence by the questions I asked the Department of Finance about the management of that contract and that we haven't been ripped off. But really, I mean Anika Wells has got to take responsibility here. No minister, when told that their flights to the United States is going to cost a yearly salary for most Australian workers, $100,000, should accept that. They should say, okay, I will fly premium economy, I will fly economy, let's get the cost down. It's just unconscionable to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a trip overseas, particularly by the way, when the triple zero crisis is unfolding at home, and you are the minister responsible for dealing with that.
PETER STEFANOVIC: All right, and just a final one here, James. It looks as though, after the government criticised your gas reservation scheme at the last election, looks like they're going to get in behind that now with an announcement next week.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It certainly does, Pete. It looks like they've been dragged kicking and screaming to the sensible position that the Coalition has advocated, which is that Australian gas should be made available to Australians first. We're one of the world's largest exporters of gas, and we have some of the highest prices in the world for gas. It's a great export industry. It's an important part of our bilateral relationship with countries like Japan and Korea, but Australians shouldn't have to pay through the nose for some of the highest gas prices in the world.
PETER STEFANOVIC: All right, plenty for us to talk about this morning. James Patterson, good to see you as always.
ENDS