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July 2, 2026
PETER STEFANOVIC: Let's bring in the Shadow Defence Minister, James Paterson. What do you think about progressive patriotism, James?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think you're right to highlight how weird and odd this is. I don't know why Pat Conroy feels the need to qualify his patriotism and make it "progressive." Maybe he's trying to rebrand patriotism to make it socially acceptable to the left, who are not comfortable being proud of their country. But I don't describe myself as a conservative patriot or a liberal patriot or a right-wing patriot. I'm just a patriot. I love my country. I think Australia is the best country in the world, and I want to keep it that way. And it's frankly odd that the government can't just say that without putting this left-wing qualifier on it.
STEFANOVIC: OK, just for a bit more meat on the bones of his speech today, you know, he's going to highlight waste, the billions of dollars of waste over the past 10 years, which, in a period of self reflection, is also going to include the four years that Labor's been in power. And as I mentioned just a moment ago, he believes that Labor is the best party to handle Australia's defence and sovereignty. What's your reaction to that?
PATERSON: Well, this is an extraordinary set of remarks by Pat Conroy also yesterday, where he has publicly attacked the public servants who work for him in the Department of Defence and our men and women in uniform in the ADF. And humiliated them by saying, they've presided over these useless meetings, wasted all this money, wasted all this time, have refused to make decisions. And the problem for Pat Conroy is, he's been the defence industry minister for four years now. The Labor Party has been in government for four years now. He's entering his fifth year as minister. And when he and Richard Marles were sworn into this portfolio at the start of the last term, the one thing they said they would do is they would take responsibility, they would lead, they would engage in political leadership to make sure the Department of Defence delivered. And now, four years in, they're saying it's the fault of the department and the system which they have presided over and the people who they have appointed to those positions. So it's an extraordinary attempt to shift blame, to refuse to take responsibility, contrary to what they said they would do four years ago.
STEFANOVIC: Ok, are you pleased though? That the Prime Minister and Pat Conroy appear to be pushing against the left flank of the party and urging them to get behind AUKUS?
PATERSON: Well, it's the bare minimum you would expect from any government that aspires to govern in the national interest. AUKUS is a critical national security mission for Australia, and this government needs to do more, frankly, to sell it and to earn and sustain the social and political licence that it's going to need to maintain support over generations and decades. I think, actually, they've been negligent in doing so far. They've rarely been on the front foot selling the virtues of it, explaining the need for it. In fact, they have done the opposite. They've lulled Australians into a false sense of confidence and said, well, we've stabilised our international relationships, including our bilateral relationship with the People's Republic of China, which many Australians have heard as, well, why would you need to spend this money on these submarines then? And I think that's irresponsible.
STEFANOVIC: Alright, just a couple of other matters relating to the Liberal Party this morning, James. I want to start off with this poll in Victoria that has the Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan, now one of the least popular political leaders in Australian history, the same Red Bridge poll has One Nation climbing over the top of both Labor and the Liberal Party for the first time. This is all months out from the state election. So I want ask you this, as one of highest profile Victorian Liberals, Jacinta Allan, with that unwanted title. Yet somehow she's still in the hunt in November. Your thoughts on that.
PATERSON: Oh, look, I don't think this poll shows the Labor Party is in the hunt at all. In fact, Kos Samaras, former Labor official who runs Red Bridge, has said it's virtually impossible to see Labor being re-elected on these numbers. And, in fact, they're facing potentially a wipeout of their seats, including in some of their traditional safe seats. That's why I believe that Victorian Labor will try and change jockey at the last minute. They'll roll Jacinta Allan, put in Ben Carroll and try and pretend it's a different and new government. But the reality is, after 12 years of corruption, incompetence, debt blowout, a crime crisis, Victorians just aren't buying it. And what I thought was very illustrative in that poll, despite the messy couple of weeks the Victorian Liberals have had, which they would acknowledge themselves, Jess Wilson is by far and away the most popular political leader in Victoria. And I think as Victorians get to know her better and as they contemplate at the next election that this is a choice between who's going to run this state, who's going to govern this state and who's going to be the premier, they'll have to choose between either Ben Carroll, or Jacinta Allan, or Jess Wilson. I think they'll choose Jess Wilson.
STEFANOVIC: Like you said though, with the Liberal Party it's been messy for them, and the Victorian Liberals do have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot, and this one around Moria Deeming, are you expecting her to be disendorsed by the party when it meets tomorrow?
PATERSON: Well, Pete, I'm a member of the State Executive. I'll participate in that meeting. And for that reason, I am very limited in what I can say publicly. I will participate in that meeting. I'll hear the arguments, and I'll make a decision in the best interest of the Liberal Party, as every member of the state executive is required to do.
STEFANOVIC: Ok, if an allegation is made, it's investigated and then overturned by police. Is that really survivable?
PATERSON: Well, my heart goes out to Matthew Guy. He is a good and decent person. The allegations made against him were unsubstantiated, and the police very quickly dismissed them based on the evidence that they heard. But his reputation and his family have suffered a very serious hit, and I think the right and decent thing to do would be to apologise to him, even if it wasn't your intention to cause that harm to him.
STEFANOVIC: So with all of that said, will she end up being disendorsed? I guess back to that original question.
PATERSON: Fair for you to ask, Pete, but given I've got a responsibility to make a decision as a member of the State Executive in the best interests of the Victorian division of the Liberal Party and the Victorian people, I have to be careful about that. What I can say is that Jess Wilson has made it very clear that she will tolerate no distractions in the lead-up to November. She is so determined to deliver a fresh start to the people of Victoria. Right now, she's on a tour of every single one of the 88 seats in Victoria, and she's out there listening to Victorians. She's out there selling her plan to turn this state around, and she needs the support of her team so she can focus on that.
STEFANOVIC: Just a final one here with the Federal Libs now, James. Niki Sava with a piece this morning about the demise of the Federal Libs and the problem that you've got with One Nation, which has entrapped Andrew Hastie, who's been a public opponent of One Nation. She's hinting that he could abandon the Liberal Party. Is that your read of things?
PATERSON: No. Andrew is one of my closest friends in the federal parliament. He's a loyal Liberal, and he has steeled himself up for this fight, and I admire him for that. One Nation has come for him. They have targeted him. They have been smearing him, and he is not going to take a backward step. He is not going to back down and it is to his great credit. And he has the support of every single Liberal around the country in that fight, and we will stand with him in that fight and for anyone else that One Nation comes after. Because One Nation talks about how they want to get rid of the Prime Minister and the government, but they spend an inordinate amount of time in the seats of Liberals and Nationals and attacking the Liberal and National parties. We don't change the government by attacking another centre-right party, you change the Government by attacking the Labor Party. That's where our focus is, but if One Nation comes for us, we're very happy to stand our ground and defend it.
STEFANOVIC: But why aren't other senior Liberals then joining Andrew Hastie in condemning One Nation by saying quite publicly, I've got no interest in teaming up with One Nation in any capacity, whereas other Liberals who I've spoken to on this program, they seem open to at least having preference deals with One Nation.
PATERSON: I've got to say this preference deal discussion 18 months or two years out from the election is such a Canberra-insider discussion. We will make those decisions in due course in the normal way.
STEFANOVIC: Yeah, I guess my point is that other Liberals haven't come out as strong as Andrew Hastie has against One Nation.
PATERSON: Well, I think, actually, you'll find myself and a lot of others have been highly critical of One Nation where it's warranted. When they make missteps, when they make mistakes, they are subject to the legitimate scrutiny that any political party in their position should be subject to, particularly when they are posing as an alternative government of Australia, particularly when Pauline Hanson is talking about being Prime Minister. I mean, she has a Senate colleague, Malcolm Roberts, who has described our most important national security ally, the United States, as the world's greatest terrorist organisation. That's an utterly unhinged and insane thing to say, and I don't think Pauline Hanson has been adequately questioned about that. She certainly hasn't provided adequate answers about that. I hope she fronts up and takes responsibility and says if she were to form government, what ministry would Malcolm Roberts hold? Would it be the Defence Ministry? Would it be the Foreign Affairs Ministry? Would it be the Home Affairs Ministry? Would he be anywhere near the national security or foreign policy settings of this country? And if she can't answer that question, then I think there are real questions about whether One Nation could ever form a government and govern in the national interest.
STEFANOVIC: All right, James Paterson, it's good to see you as always. Thank you so much. We will talk to you again soon.
PATERSON: Thanks, Pete.
ENDS