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Transcripts
October 15, 2025
Wednesday, 15 October, 2025
Topics: Tom Hughes Oration, future of the Liberal Party,
E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………
GARY ADSHEAD: And of course it's no secret there's been a bit going on internally with the Liberal Party. They've still got their review underway. They're grappling with what policies they should be taking forward in terms of trying to topple the Albanese government at the next federal election. Not a great result at the last federal election, certainly some within the party feel that they need to go in a different direction. We'll find out what Senator James Paterson thinks of that. Of course he's now the Shadow Finance Minister, a federal Liberal Senator and he has given overnight his Tom Hughes Oration in Sydney where he did reflect on where the Liberal Party is and where it needs to be and he joins me on the line. Thanks very much for your time Senator.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you Gary.
GARY ADSHEAD: Okay you said in your view we must call time on the apology tour as a political party. What are you apologising for?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, we're right to be humble after the worst ever defeat in the 81 year history of the federal Liberal Party, but people aren't going to vote Liberal at the next election because we have spent two years or two and a half years or even three years apologising for a bad election result. They might vote Liberal if we hold this government to account and point out their failings. And if we unite behind a shared set of values and articulate policies consistent with those values that solve the problems in their lives.
GARY ADSHEAD: So on that front then of course you know there was a lot of publicity around what happened with Andrew Hastie, he certainly raised some policy views that he had then he's retreated to the backbench at this point in time. On those issues do you think he was raising the type of discussion that Australians are having all the time local manufacturing, immigration numbers and net zero, for example?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes I do and I think now is the time to have that debate about our future direction, our philosophy, our values and our policies. What we can't do though is still be having this conversation in two years time because by then we need to demonstrate that we're unified and we have a clear plan if we win the next election. So Andrew is right to raise those issues now as are my other colleagues who are participating in this debate.
GARY ADSHEAD: So are you disappointed then that he decided to take that position of going to the backbench?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I respect his decision to go to the backbench. I think it is a principled thing to do, if you support the conventions of the Westminster system as Andrew does and as I do. I would love to still have him on the frontbench and I look forward to him rejoining the frontbench at some time in the future because I think he's too good to be on the backbench forever. But if he wants to strike out philosophically and on policy issues, the backbench is the right place to do that for now.
GARY ADSHEAD: Right, so in other words you're saying that if he wants to talk about big policy issues like net zero and like manufacturing and etc, that he can't do that on the frontbench?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, if he wants to be unconstrained from the conventions that apply to shadow ministers, which is we must only speak about our own portfolio areas and we must abide by the principle of shadow cabinet solidarity in other portfolio areas that can't be done from the frontbench. And Andrew knows that and understands that. And that's why he's made this choice. And that is why I respect him for that choice because it is the right thing to do rather than stay on the front bench and be a source of irritation and undermine, you know, shadow cabinet solidarity or the leader. He's decided to do the principled thing, go to the backbench and articulate his vision from there.
GARY ADSHEAD: Sussan Ley of course was asked about your speech this morning. Here's some of what she had to say.
CLIP STARTS
LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, HON SUSSAN LEY MP: I read James' speech, he actually sent it to me before he delivered it, Julian was there as custodian of the oration, the Tom Hughes Oration, and it's an excellent speech and what it does is remind all Australians of our Liberal values, where we back aspiration, where we back hard working Australians that want to get ahead and play by the rules, develop a good future for themselves and their families. The Australians who built this country. So yes I draw everyone's attention to the speech. It's excellent reading.
CLIP ENDS
GARY ADSHEAD: There you go, excellent reading. But it comes back to those policies and issues that you guys are grappling with at the moment, because it's whether or not you have a view that by focusing on matters like immigration, net zero manufacturing, you can win government again. Do you think you can?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I think just to take one of those, immigration. I think that is a mainstream issue that a lot of Australians are concerned about. All the evidence shows most Australians think immigration is too high. We think they're right. It has been completely out of control on this government's watch. They brought in more than a million people in two years and didn't build the housing or the infrastructure or the services to accommodate them. And that is putting strains on all of those things. And it's no wonder Australians want it brought back to more sustainable levels.
GARY ADSHEAD: Yeah, but I get confused on this because the other day we had the Premier of Western Australia talking about his disappointment in the federal government for curtailing the number of skilled migrants that would be coming in under the quota into Western Australia from 5,000 down to 3,400 and arguing that Western Australia needs more people to build houses and the infrastructure and to take the sort of jobs that others aren't taking. So I get pretty confused about where we should be sitting with immigration and migration right now.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well the funny thing about the way Labor managed the migration programme in their first term is they brought in record numbers of people, but very few people who work in the building industry who could actually help build the homes. I assume that was because of some kind of sweetheart deal with the CFMEU, but if you're going to have immigration running that high, at least bring in people with the skills that we need to build the houses that we know our country desperately needs.
GARY ADSHEAD: Right, so in other words you would be supportive of migrants coming to this country if they can contribute to one of the biggest issues we have and that's the housing crisis?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: We're supportive of sustainable levels of migration, migration which can keep up with infrastructure and housing and services, and migration of people who want to make a contribution to our country and that is in terms of the skills that they bring but it's also in terms of the values that they're bringing. People who want to sign up to Australia, who share our values, who want a strength in our country are very welcome, have always been very welcome and should continue to be welcome.
GARY ADSHEAD: I'm talking to Senator James Paterson off the back of a speech he gave in Sydney. Now you also say that we are often told that we should stop fighting the culture wars and we talk there about whether Prime Ministers should be standing in front of the indigenous flags for example, welcome to country and other issues. Will you stop fighting culture wars?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Culture wars is often used as a pejorative term to shut down discussion on issues that are of concern to Australians. And there are issues which the Liberal Party cares about and has things to say about and I don't think we should walk away from those. A lot of the symbols of Australian identity are actually widely supported and unifying. Things like the flag, the anthem, our constitution, the ANZAC tradition, Australia Day. The Liberal Party is on the side of the majority of Australians on those issues and we should not be afraid to defend those things.
GARY ADSHEAD: Yet, you know that in order to win back the votes in the centre, which is where you've got to go, a lot of the discussion is that you focus on those sorts of issues well and above more broad-ranging issues. Do you accept that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, we need to both lock in our core base support and win over swing voters. It's not an either or proposition and to do that I think we need to talk about those issues of identity and culture and sovereignty but we also need to talk about the economy and we have to have very good answers to the economic problems that Australians face in their lives. Productivity has gone backwards, living standards have gone backwards, the budget is back now in deficit and there are a decade of deficits to come. Labor doesn't have any answers on the big economic questions. We need to demonstrate we do, so that people will feel that if they vote Liberal, they will be personally better off, and our country will be stronger.
GARY ADSHEAD: Do you accept though that unless you can win back those inner city suburbs that have been taken by so many Teal independents, that your chances of winning government again are very very reduced in terms of the actual mathematical possibility?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think the Liberal Party is at our best when we aspire to represent all Australians. I don't want to rule out the Liberal party representing any seat, whether it's in the inner city or the middle suburbs or regional or remote Australia. We want to govern for all of our country and we want to represent all of those people and we should contest all of the seats robustly. And we have demonstrated, even in a disappointing election outcome, Tim Wilson won the seat of Goldstein back from a Teal. It can be done and I think we should do more of it.
GARY ADSHEAD: You talk about the, being... need to be a time limit on soul searching. When does time run out?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look there's not a specific date or time on it - it's more that this is a healthy and normal debate to have at the start of the term but it wouldn't be a good thing to be still having these debates at the end of the term. Well before the end of the term we need to agree on these principles and on these values and on these policies and retail them to the Australian people in a timely way so that they can make an informed decision at the election hopefully to vote Liberal.
GARY ADSHEAD: You also talked about... you have a moral duty to prevent the Victorianisation of Australia. What do you mean by that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well as a Victorian I'm ashamed to say my home state is a bit of a mess and I think most Australians looking at Victoria have a mixture of pity and fear about what's happened in Victoria and they hope it doesn't come anywhere else. Certainly I know people in Western Australia do not want a Victorian style crime crisis that we have right now on this government's watch or indeed the economic crisis that we've had on this government's watch in Victoria. And part of that is because the Liberal Party in Victoria hasn't been able to hold the state government to account successfully. I think that's changing. I think they've got a stronger team now than they've had for a long time. But we don't want that to happen in Canberra. I don't want Canberra to become a Victorian-style capital.
GARY ADSHEAD: Hey, just finally, I mean, you also discuss these, and I'll use your words so that I can put it to you with context, that you say that we are told that our future lies in a Farage, that's Nigel Farage, like populist conservative party, which abandons our traditions on free markets and fiscal discipline in favour of new nationalism, of picking winners and turning our backs on free trade. When you say we are told that, who's telling you that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, it's primarily people outside the parliamentary party who are advocating that we should follow this Farage-style path. And my big issue with it is the economic agenda that he advances, which is not liberal at all. He proposes significant increases in government spending, mostly on welfare, and he proposes to nationalise privately run businesses like the steel industry and utilities. The Liberal Party was founded to fight nationalisation when it was proposed by the Chifley government over the banks, and so our core values have always been for a free enterprise system and small government and we have to uphold those values.
GARY ADSHEAD: Sussan Ley is obviously the leader. All of the things that you've been talking about require someone who's a strong leader to get the job done. Is she strong enough to take you through to the next election?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes, I think she is. And I support her. But I've also said anyone leading the Liberal Party at this moment would have a tough time because we have just suffered this shock, devastating defeat. And we are going through a period of introspection. So she has my support. But no one in any, no matter who they were, or how good they were would find this a difficult moment in our history.
GARY ADSHEAD: But as you said, that introspection has to stop.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Exactly right. It cannot go on forever.
GARY ADSHEAD: James Paterson, thanks very much for joining us.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thank you for having me.
ENDS