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Transcripts
February 18, 2026
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SENATOR FOR VICTORIA
TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST
Wednesday, 18 February 2026
Topics: Appointment as Shadow Minister for Defence, new shadow cabinet, Coalition’s immigration policy, Labor should stop ISIS brides returning to Australia
E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………
SALLY SARA: Joining me now is the new Shadow Minister for Defence, James Paterson, who's been listening in. Senator, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Good morning, Sally.
SALLY SARA: You've just heard there from the UN official criticising the Prime Minister's comments and saying there that these children didn't get to choose their beds. What do you say to that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I listened carefully to that interview and I respect and understand that perspective of a United Nations official on an issue like this. But I have a different perspective and that is that the first and most important duty of an Australian government is to protect Australians here at home and to do nothing that would jeopardise the safety and security of our country. And the truth is that allowing people to return to Australia who left our country to join a reprehensible, violent terrorist organisation like ISIS does pose a risk to Australians. And there have been media reports in the last 24 hours which speculated that these people have not been interviewed by Australian government officials for up to three years, that some of these people constitute high risk and that it may be necessary to apply for temporary exclusion orders to keep them offshore. Those are very serious risks which Australians and the Australian government must put first.
SALLY SARA: How do you see the situation for children who may not have had agency or choice as to where they've now found themselves?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I have much more sympathy, obviously, for children who were taken against their will or when they were minors or indeed born over there than I do for adults who had a choice to leave our country and go and join the ISIS death cult. And in the past the Australian government has repatriated children, but my understanding is for a number of years now there has been no proposal to repatriate children independently of their parents because the parents have insisted that repatriation only occur with adults as well. And some of these adults do pose a risk. I think it's very important to remember that while these people are called ISIS brides, you know, colloquially in the media, actually they are members of ISIS. And we know that female ISIS members were involved in some of the most reprehensible persecution of minorities including Yazidis and Christians. They're involved in using the weapons of rape and torture as a weapon of war.
SALLY SARA: Do you reject the notions of possible trafficking of some of these women that it was against their will?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: No, I don't. I don't reject that. It's certainly possible and the facts are important in these cases. But it is also the case that many adults left Australia willingly to join what they believed was going to be an Islamic caliphate because they wanted to be part of it. They wanted to be a part of a government that was a theocracy, that had religious law, that was not a democracy and that murdered and tortured and raped people who were a different religion and race and ethnicity under their control. And we have to take very seriously that any person like that, even if they now regret their decision, wants to return to our country.
SALLY SARA: Do you think that the use of temporary exclusion orders would be a way to manage this situation? Is it appropriate or applicable?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes, a temporary exclusion order could be appropriate in these individual circumstances. Ultimately, it will be up to the courts to determine the individual facts of each case, but a temporary exclusion order has the virtue of keeping someone offshore while a case can be built against them for them to potentially be charged. It is a crime to associate with a listed terrorist organisation or join a listed terrorist organisation. It was also a crime to travel to the parts of Syria and Iraq that were controlled by Islamic State under the declared area offences. And it is possible that some of these individuals were directly and personally involved in crimes of terrorism. And so the temporary exclusion orders allow those cases to be built so that if they ever do return to our country, they can be charged.
SALLY SARA: What is the risk that if Australia doesn't help that some of these children are left in these camps to radicalise there?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That is absolutely a risk and that's been a risk for some time, it's not a new risk and the truth is that certainly the adults involved by definition were radicalised because many of them chose to leave our country to go and join ISIS.
SALLY SARA: Turning to matters back home, Opposition Leader Angus Taylor says the announcement of the shadow ministry marks a fresh beginning. Will the new Coalition leadership team start work on policies from scratch or build on what was done during Sussan Ley's time as leader?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It will be different in every portfolio area. There are some portfolio areas where some excellent work has occurred and some by nature of where we are in the electoral cycle that less work has been done. So we will pick up what is there and seek to develop it further and release it in good time.
SALLY SARA: Before the leadership spill, the Coalition's immigration policy was expected to be released imminently. Since being selected as leader, Mr Taylor has signalled that migration will be a major focus. How quickly is the Opposition aiming to release its immigration policy?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm not sure if that was a reasonable expectation because that immigration policy that has been released to the media has never been through any decision-making body of the Coalition. It's not been to the leadership group, it's not been to the Shadow Expenditure Review Committee, it has not been to the Shadow Cabinet. As the Shadow Finance Minister, I have never seen that document and there was significant fiscal implications of some of the individual items in that policy. So to suggest it was imminently available for release I think is being very generous. We will work through this in a methodical way. We will do that in an orthodox way that involves the relevant shadow ministers in the Shadow Cabinet that gets costings from the Parliamentary Budget Office and we'll release it when it's ready.
SALLY SARA: Are there elements of that policy that you think are on the right track?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm not going to speculate because I've only seen screenshots leaked to the media, not the full document and so it's very hard to assess the whole policy. Angus has been clear about his principles though. He thinks that over the last few years in Australia that the immigration numbers have been too high and the standards are too low. We want to bring those numbers down and we want to lift the standards.
SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Shadow Minister for Defence, James Paterson. Senator, you've just taken on the shadow defence portfolio. Do you believe that defence spending needs to increase as a percentage of Australia's GDP?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes, I do. I don't think the Albanese government's promise to increase defence spending to only 2.3% of GDP in the early 2030s understands the risk that our country faces in the most uncertain strategic environment and you don't have to rely on my view for that. Sir Angus Houston and Professor Peter Dean, who completed the Defence Strategic Review for the Albanese government, have both said that we need to be spending much more like 3% of GDP and much sooner. And so I am gravely concerned that we're under-investing in our defence at a very dangerous time for our country.
SALLY SARA: James Paterson, thank you very much for coming back on the programme. Thank you.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me.
ENDS