Transcript | ABC News Breakfast

Tuesday, 15 October, 2025 

Topics: Tom Hughes oration, future of the Liberal Party  

E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………… 

JAMES GLENDAY: Well, we've been talking about him all morning, so let's talk to him. Liberal Senator James Paterson joins us from Sydney. Senator, welcome back to the program. 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thank you for having me, James. 

JAMES GLENDAY: You haven't minced your words here: "Park the apology tour", "stop sniping". Why are you telling your colleagues to pull their heads in so publicly? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I think it's healthy and natural and normal after the worst defeat of the Liberal Party in our 81-year history for there to be a period of public self-examination and debate about our future direction, and I've made my contribution to that last night in my speech. But I've also said that this is not a process that can continue forever. It can't continue into the term, particularly the back end of the term, because we will have to demonstrate that we're focused on the Australian people, not ourselves, as we get closer to the next election. So yes, let's have this debate now, but no, it can't go on forever. 

JAMES GLENDAY: So, when you say it can't go on forever, I mean, there are some big policy issues which remain unresolved within the Coalition. This is no secret at all, net zero chiefly among them. Does that process of deciding what your position is on that need to happen, what, in the next month? Before Christmas? What's the time frame for the public debate over policy direction to end? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I'm not putting a specific timeline on specific policies. What I'm saying is we need to move from one phase to the next. The first phase was being humble about a big election defeat. The next phase is reconciling those differences that do exist. But I don't think that's an insurmountable task, because I actually think there's a high degree of unanimity within the parliamentary Liberal Party on the big policy questions facing Australia. And then we have to get on with our policy development task and, of course, also, while doing that, holding the Albanese government to account. If we want to again earn the trust of the Australian people, which is our objective - we are a party of government - then that is the sequence we must do those things in, and in a reasonably timely way. 

JAMES GLENDAY: How much of this is about ego and personal ambition though, because Sussan Ley hasn't really been in the job for very long, and it's again no secret that there are plenty of people within the party who have ambitions to either replace her, or think that there are other better candidates to take the party forward? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Ambition in politics is not a new or unusual thing. There's centuries of history which go to that, and political parties have ways of resolving that, and we do it through leadership ballots, and Sussan was elected the leader after the election, and I support her leadership. I think colleagues are genuinely interested, though, in the big philosophical questions facing our party and our country, and they want to participate in that debate, and they should do so. What I'm also saying though is that the classical liberal-conservative intellectual fusion, which has served our party so well, is not so broken that it needs to be thrown away, and it particularly should not be thrown away for some false choices that are being offered as pathways that would not serve the party or the country's interests. 

JAMES GLENDAY: Okay, false choices. You've spoken about comparisons with Nigel Farage and what he is doing in the United Kingdom. Is that a message to Andrew Hastie to essentially come on, come back to the centre-right, the centre a little bit more? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: No not at all. Andrew's my very close friend and really what I wanted to do is make this speech about ideas not personalities. But for the avoidance of doubt, that was directed at people outside of the parliamentary party, not in the parliamentary party. People who say liberals and conservatives have nothing in common anymore, and we should split and go our separate ways. That would be about as successful as the split in the Labor Party was for them in the 1950s. I think it would consign us to near permanent opposition, and it would achieve the Prime Minister's objective of making the Labor Party the natural party of government, which no Liberal should want. We can't go down that pathway of Farage-style populism, because what he advocates in the UK - and that's a matter for them if they want to go down their path - is nationalisation of industries like steel and utilities, is significantly increased public spending and deficits. These things are fundamentally at odds with what the Liberal Party believes. Robert Menzies founded the Liberal party in part to oppose nationalisation that was proposed by the Chifley government of the banks in the '40s. So, that is not the pathway for us. 

JAMES GLENDAY: Yes, of course. Some people might think you were talking about Andrew Hastie because he of course spoke about the car industry. Just before I let you go, the Prime Minister is regarded as a good political strategist on both sides of the political aisle. He has been very open that he wants to make the Labor Party the natural party of government and consign the Coalition to the natural party of opposition. How high is the risk that he achieves that aim in your view, given the current disunity we're seeing within the Coalition, and within the different parts of the Coalition too? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Despite his best efforts, I don't think it's within his power to do that himself. He will only be able to do if we don't get our act together, and we're not able to hold him and his government to account and put forward our own policy agenda. One of the things I warned about last night in the speech is the Victorianisation of our country. If you want to see what a long-term Labor government looks like, and what that means for the people they govern, just look at Victoria. It is not pretty, and I do not want to our country go that way, and that's why I and my colleagues have a special obligation to get our act together to prevent the Prime Minister achieving that objective of making Australia a one-party government, or as he says, a natural party of government. 

JAMES GLENDAY: And just for avoidance of doubt, before I let you go, Sussan Ley: should she lead the Liberal Party to the next election? 

SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Yes, I support Sussan. 

JAMES GLENDAY: Alright, James Paterson, Victorian Senator and Coalition front bencher, thanks for your time this morning.

ENDS

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