Media
|
Transcripts
April 15, 2026
LUCY ZELIC: Who better to unpack all of this with than Senator James Paterson, the Shadow Defence Minister, and I'm pleased to say that he joins me on the line now. James, good afternoon.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me, Lucy.
LUCY ZELIC: What kind of spin can we expect tomorrow from Richard Marles?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, you can expect a lot of it. From what we've seen in the media so far that the government has leaked out, there are some good initiatives in this. There's going to be an increased emphasis on drones, and it appears to be not just offensive drones, but counter-drone defensive measures, which we've seen from Ukraine and again now in the conflict of Iran.
LUCY ZELIC: Modern warfare, modern warfare.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Exactly, they are the essential features of modern warfare, and frankly, Australia is not up to speed and hasn't acted quickly enough, so if that's changing tomorrow, I'll certainly welcome that. But we're going to have to look at the financial figures very closely, because this is a government that plays a lot of games with numbers, and they often dress up an increase in spending, which is actually just an increase because of inflation, not any extra new money for the defence department.
LUCY ZELIC: Can you explain for our listeners, James, and can you point to a moment in time where the government's naivety with respect to defence and our sovereign capabilities on this front, where it occurred?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think the biggest problem is they've ignored the expert advice that they got themselves. So when they came to government, they asked Sir Angus Houston, former Chief of the Defence Force, Stephen Smith, a former Defence Minister, and Professor Peter Dean, an academic expert on defence, to do the defence strategic review. And they released it in part, but Peter Dean and Sir Angus Houston have both publicly said since then Australia needs to be spending at least 3% of GDP on our defence. And what has the Albanese government done? On this front, actually nothing. They are still spending 2% of GDP, which is what the previous government left them. They haven't increased defence spending at all. And the reason why that's a problem is they're trying to deliver the new AUKUS capability, including nuclear submarines, which we strongly support, but are very expensive and will not arrive for a number of years. And in the meantime, to pay for that, instead of increasing the defence budget, they've actually made a whole lot of cuts to the defence department, particularly the Australian Army, who have suffered from a real loss of capability on this government's watch.
LUCY ZELIC: And it's concerning because particularly in the events leading up to Bondi where we saw that under this government we've seen cuts to counter-terrorism efforts, and also you mentioned there the ADF capabilities as well, there were stories doing the rounds and I'm sure that they came out via the Australian where they pointed to the fact that under this government again that they had made the decision to strip funding that would have given us updated satellites and now we are stuck with outdated technology with respect to satellites and we'll be stuck with them at least until I think it's 2030. Do you feel though, that off the back of this conflict in the Middle East and the tensions that continue to brew there though, do you feel if you could be fair to the opposite side of the aisle that there has been at least a semblance of recognition that we need to do more with respect to defence?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: They certainly say that they will increase defence spending in the future, but in my view, it's not enough, and it's not quick enough. So they say they'll get to about 2.3 to 2.4% of GDP by the early to mid 2030s. So still, almost a decade away, a little bit less than a decade away, when the danger that we face is on our doorstep right now, it's urgent. Iran is another reminder of how unsettled and uncertain the world is. And waiting until the early 2030s to increase our defence spending is just not serious. You're right about those military communications satellites, that's a project that was cancelled under Labor. The infantry fighting vehicle order was scaled back, so was the self-propelled Howitzers, so was an order for a fourth squadron of F-35 jets, so were, in fact, even reservists’ days. Reservists have been told that instead of up to 200 days of service a year, you can only do 150. Now that is all evidence of a defence department that's not being funded adequately.
LUCY ZELIC: And selling off our defence sites as well, I mean, you could really, the list is as long as your arm and more. The one thing that concerns me in all of this, though, is that we've already had warning signs, right, prior to this conflict with Iran and the unrest in the Middle East. The fact that you could point to that period in time where you had Chinese naval warships that were circumnavigating the eastern seaboard. Wasn't that the red flag, James? Wasn't the time we said, hey, hang on a minute, something's not good here?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That was a very troubling event for a couple of reasons. One, it signalled a real intent on behalf of the People's Liberation Army Navy. They circumnavigated our country in quite a menacing way. They conducted a live firing exercise in the Tasman Sea. But not just their intent was the problem, but our capability was the problem there. Because we learnt about that live firing exercise from a Virgin Australia pilot who observed it and heard a warning message from the Chinese Navy and reported it back. It wasn't because we were on top of it, it's because we're relying on civilian aircraft to be on top of it. Now, a well-funded ADF with adequate surveillance capability would have been all over that, and unfortunately, they weren't.
LUCY ZELIC: God, it's embarrassing, isn't it? It really is, and it doesn't give the citizens of this country any great ease to watch all of this play out in the fashion that it has. I have to ask you, James, do you have any insight or intel? Are we going to see an end to this Iran war anytime soon, or is it just too damn impossible to get a read on what Trump is thinking and what he's going to do next?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I think the President is a very hard man to predict, but what does appear clear to me analytically is that he's threatening escalation in order to try and get the Iranians to de-escalate and for some kind of deal to be done. Now the sort of deal that's done is really important. If it's a deal that allows Iran to continue enriching uranium, that's a problem, and he said he's not interested in that. If it is a deal to allow the Iranians to continue to toll the Strait of Hormuz, raise money for the IRGC, effectively their terrorist wing, designated terrorist wing, then that's a problem. So it's critically important that the United States and the President succeed here, and I wish him all the best in these critical negotiations.
LUCY ZELIC: Do you reckon he underestimated how this was going to play out, if you had to be honest?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I really shouldn't speculate on that. It's not conducive to our most important alliance to have a Shadow Minister for Defence publicly speculating about that. But I would say it's very clearly become a very complicated conflict and it has demonstrated again, the principle of asymmetry, and that is that a smaller power can make a much larger power have a very bad day using actually quite cheap things like drones and missiles and simple capabilities. The Ukrainians have done it to Russia in that war. The Iranians are doing it to the United States in this war, and Australia should embrace that principle that we could do it to a larger adversary too. We could give them a very bad day if we invest in the right asymmetric capabilities.
LUCY ZELIC: So, how do you feel about the prospect of Australia involving itself in this war?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I don't think there's any call for us to directly involve ourselves in offensive operations in Iran.
LUCY ZELIC: But Trump, James, has been pretty critical of us, hasn't he? He's kind of taken every opportunity when he has been presented with the moment to give his allies a whack.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That's true. He's given us and others a whack publicly, but the government assures us and has said many times there's never been any official request for assistance from the United States. Where we could possibly play a role is after a proper peace agreement, we could play a role in keeping the Strait of Hormuz open, along with the United Kingdom and France and other countries. And we have a strong interest in that happening. The only way that petrol and diesel prices are going to come down is if the Straight of Hormuz is reopened on a permanent basis and that crude oil from the Middle East can flow to Asian refineries to turn it into the petrol and diesel we use.
LUCY ZELIC: Oh my gosh, I mean, the sooner we get an end to all of this, I think the better we'll all be for it. James, I can't let you go without asking you to react to the news from your opposition leader, Angus Taylor, and his announcement with respect to his immigration policy. Old mate Tony Burke, Minister for Home Affairs, gave you, tried to give you guys a good whack. They won't pass up that chance, will they? But what did you make of his comments today in his press conference?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, if you were to line up every single Australian citizen in a row in order of advice you would take on immigration policy, Tony Burke would be at the end of the row. I mean, this is the last guy we're taking advice from on this. He had to be publicly shamed into cancelling the visas of Islamist hate preachers whom he had granted visas to allow to come to our country. So when it comes to protecting Australia's way of life, when it comes to lifting immigration standards, I think we've got a better alternative. I think Angus has outlined a very strong policy that puts Australian values at the heart of our migration system and says, you're very welcome to come to our country either as a visitor or to migrate here, but only if you share our values, only if you want to strengthen our country and make it better, not if you want to change it.
LUCY ZELIC: Hear hear, I think so many people can agree with that, but they do want to know, James, before I let you go, are you lot going to get your act together? Are the glory days ahead of the Coalition or behind you, because you've got a lot of disaffected voters who have been very disappointed with your performance since the absolute walloping at the federal election in May last year.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: I realise that and I hear that. And that frustration is frankly warranted and we do have to do better and we will do better because we must for our country's sake. We cannot let this government continue, we cannot allow it to be re-elected. I'd hate to think what would happen to our country if we had another term of Anthony Albanese and Labor, and we're all very determined to do better to earn back that trust and support of the Australian people.
LUCY ZELIC: Senator James Paterson, Shadow Defence Minister, we will all, of course, be watching with bated breath when Defence Minister Richard Marles delivers his National Press Club address and look forward to unpacking it, but in the meantime, thanks for your company, and we wish you well.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks for having me.
ENDS