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Transcripts
October 6, 2025
LUKE GRANT: Here's Senator James Paterson, the acting Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Shadow Minister for Finance, Government Services and Public Service. Well, that's a straight-out fib. First off, good morning James, but that is a straight-out fib from the PM, isn't it?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: It's great to be with you, Luke, and you're right, I think there's a plausible case that the Prime Minister has misled the Parliament here and he should take the first opportunity tomorrow when the Parliament returns to correct the record and tell the Australian public what his government knew, when they knew it, and what they have done about the return of these so-called ISIS brides and their children to Australia. But it's also critically important that, before that happens, that today the Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke, stands up to answer questions about this. Tony Burke has a habit of going missing in action when the going gets tough, but the Australian people deserve answers about this critical matter of public safety, and it's not good enough for him to hide and duck for cover when it gets difficult.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah, well, he might be arranging the photos or the portraits in his office, I don't know, but you're right, he has to come out and say something. And look, this isn't just a by accident leak. This was confirmed, was it not, by senior New South Wales police in estimates in the New South Wales Parliament? I mean, we knew this was happening.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: That's right, Luke, I don't think there's any reason to doubt the media coverage that these people have returned to Australia, and the government themselves have briefed the media anonymously that if it is the case that any ISIS brides return to Australia, they did so without the cooperation of the government. That is not true. It is not possible for an Australian citizen by descent, which is what the children of the ISIS brides are, to return to Australia without first applying for citizenship by descent through the Department of Home Affairs and then applying for a passport from the Department for Foreign Affairs and Trade. They couldn't get on a plane, let alone into Australia, if they didn't have those two documents. And so this government has facilitated their return and they are lying about it.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah, absolutely right. I know this is a big issue for both you and I, because it stinks, the Government's just misled us on this, and they haven't been forthcoming, but you know there's a lot of other things happening. For example, the Trump peace deal in the Middle East. It takes another very small step forward today. I hope, like anything, that it gets across the line. And I just think, particularly given the date where we are on the calendar, that we should all just be taking a deep breath. And frankly, I don't understand, James, how there could be a vigil for Gaza at Sydney's Town Hall happening tonight, I think, on the eve of the anniversary, they're gathering, they say, to mourn the horrific loss of Palestinian life. People seem to have a memory that doesn't extend beyond October 7 in 2023, almost like October 6, 2023, didn't exist when none of this was a problem. The issue is what happened on that day, and to protest around now, I think, is awful.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: There are a number of very insensitively timed events around the 7 October anniversary, including that one you described, including another in Western Sydney on the 7th October and one planned for the Sydney Opera House. Australians are, of course, entitled to feel deeply concerned about the humanitarian situation in Gaza. We all should be. But the anniversary of the worst loss of Jewish life on a single day since the Holocaust is something that should be treated with respect and reverence. And holding an event which, in some cases, is designed to, quote, honour the martyrs of October 7 is, frankly, a glorification of terrorism and it should not be allowed to proceed. I'm very concerned that some of the groups involved in organising these protests have charitable status from the ACNC and are able to take tax-deductible donations. I think the Albanese government must urgently review that and must say that these protests should not go ahead.
LUKE GRANT: Yeah, it's disgusting. And then you have Larissa Waters, the Greens leader, claiming yesterday that the Manchester terror attack proved Australia should have taken stronger action against Israel. I mean, the insensitivity around all these issues and the timing of them, I mean, apart from being blatantly inaccurate, the timing, it's just awful, and she's meant to be the leader of a political party in Australia.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, Luke, the Liberal Party has a lot to be humble about from the last election and we're open and honest about that. But so do the Greens. They lost three quarters of their lower house seats and their leader. And there appears to be no reflection at all happening within the Greens political party about the way in which they weaponised antisemitism for their own political gain, and the way in which there was a backlash from the electorate towards them for that. So for Larissa Waters to make these incredibly insensitive comments on Insiders yesterday, I thought, just completely jumped the shark. I mean, she was suggesting that an alleged Islamist terrorist in Manchester in the United Kingdom was concerned that the Australian government's response to Israel-Gaza wasn't robust enough, and that's why he killed innocent Jews who were worshipping at a synagogue. I mean, that is just completely unhinged.
LUKE GRANT: And if it weren't for the fact that there appears to be in your party, not so much the Nationals, perhaps a little, but anyway, in the Liberal Party, so much going wrong that these really big issues that you've got a great, I think, what you're talking about, people want to hear, frankly. I think your assessment is spot on. But people can't hear it because of the noise around leadership and everything else. Mate, I reckon people want hope, but I'm sorry to say, and you know I have great respect for you and I like you, the Liberal Party looks hopeless.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Look, I hear that, Luke, but we do have to accept that after the worst electoral defeat of the Liberal Party in 80 years, that there is going to be a period of introspection, and reflection, and examination, of who we are and what we stand for, and we can't shortcut that process. But having said that, you are right. By the next election, we have to demonstrate we are not focused on ourselves, we're focused on the Australian people and their concerns, and we have to offer them a compelling alternative policy vision that inspires them to vote Liberal, and we have to critique the government's performance. So the internal debates that we're having now, some of which are public, do have a time limit on them. They cannot continue forever, and I'm keen that we get to that task of holding the government to account and developing that policy agenda as soon as possible.
LUKE GRANT: But if you believe in stuff, and I know you do, you're a principled human being, you believe in stuff, then your morals and those beliefs lead you to take a position, and then that's your position. You don't need to focus group it, you don't need to shop it around the marketplace. It just seems to me, mate, that there are so many very natural destinations for a Conservative political party and there's too much dithering. I mean, someone said on the weekend or last week, nuclear is still on the table. I mean, how is that on the table? And we haven't got to an agreement around immigration numbers.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, you're right, our country faces profound challenges, and I don't think the Albanese government has got any solutions to those challenges. I don't think they're going to get any better in managing those than they were in their first term. They've driven the budget back into deficit, and there's a decade of deficits forecasted and $1.2 trillion of debt to be racked up on their watch. Productivity has gone backwards, living standards have gone backwards and the social cohesion and security issues our country faces are just as bad as they have ever been. So you're right, there are opportunities for the Liberal Party in that, and more importantly, there's a moral obligation for those of us who care about our country to get our house in order, so we can prosecute that case, and I assure you I'm working towards that.
LUKE GRANT: Well, I don't doubt you for a minute, my friend. Good to talk, thanks so much for your time.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Thanks, Luke.
ENDS