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December 5, 2024
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: What does the government think it's doing in regard to Israel? On one hand, they tell you they support Israel and that they think that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrible organisations, but on the other hand, they seem to vote against Israel at every opportunity. Now they're split with the U.S. again voting with 156 other countries in the UN to demand the end of Israel's unlawful presence in the occupied Palestinian territory as rapidly as possible. You wonder if they actually understand what's going on here. To talk to us about this shadow Home Affairs Minister, Senator James Paterson is with us. James, good morning.
JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you Stephen.
CENATIEMPO: The messages, well, I mean, we could say they're mixed messages, but they're really not, are they?
PATERSON: No, I think the Australian government, the Albanese government is sending a very clear message, not just to Israel but also to our closest and most important ally, the United States. And that is you cannot rely on Australia, at least under the Labor Party, to stand up for our principles, to stand up for our values and to stand with our friends. And I think that's a very damaging and dangerous signal to send, particularly in an uncertain strategic environment when we need good and close friends to stand with us.
CENATIEMPO: The really difficult part for me here is that in the past, Australia's abstained on votes like this, you know, rather than take a position either way. But the shift in strategy from this government has been stark and we've now seen, I think it's what, three votes that have been very anti-Israel in the UN and Australia stood lockstep with all of these other enemies of Israel across the board.
PATERSON: Well, ever since the second intifada, which was the horrific wave of terrorism launched in the early 2000s, the Australian government has taken the view that we should not prematurely or unilaterally recognise a Palestinian state, that Palestinian statehood should only come about as the result of a peace process and negotiations between the Palestinian Authority and Israel and that Australia, as a friend of Israel, should not reward terrorism by recognising a Palestinian state. Now, Penny Wong as Foreign Minister has trashed decades of bipartisanship with these votes by voting for this motion. And frankly, if you told Hamas on the sixth of October, if tomorrow you launch the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, within a year the Australian government, a friend of Israel, will reward you for doing this by voting for Palestinian statehood at the United Nations I'm not sure Hamas would have even believed that their attack would be that successful, and yet that is what's happened.
CENATIEMPO: You touched on an important point here though, because in the overall scheme of things, I really don't believe the Israeli government or the Jewish people care what the Australian government thinks about this, and nor do I think Hezbollah or Hamas care. But the U.S., it does as you say, send a very resolute message to the U.S. That we're not on your side anymore. But it also sends a message to the local Jewish population that the government's not on their side.
PATERSON: That's right. The Jewish community in Australia feel incredibly abandoned. They feel let down. Not just because of our vote at the United Nations, not just because of the inflammatory and irresponsible things that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister have said about Israel while it tries to defend itself from terrorist organisations, but also because on the question of anti-Semitism, which is a question about our own country and about what we tolerate here, what we accept. This is a government that's been missing in action, that's been weak, that's failed to stand up and recognise the serious threat this is to our country and our values.
CENATIEMPO: James, the other issue is, we are obviously going to an election sooner rather than later. I mean, well look, in the very outset, May next year, if by some chance the Coalition does win, you can't even pull out of a vote that's already been had, can you?
PATERSON: No, but we will do our best to rectify it as quickly as possible. And Peter Dutton will be the most pro-Israel Prime Minister Australia has ever had and we've had some pretty strong supporters of Israel in that office, including Scott Morrison, Malcolm Turnbull, Tony Abbott, John Howard, even Bob Hawke, Labor leaders who understood that Israel is a friend of Australia, that it's a fellow democracy and that we should stand with them shoulder to shoulder. And so we will do our best to repair our relations with Israel, to restore our standing with the United States and to repair our reputation internationally as a country that stands against terrorism and that supports our fellow democracies.
CENATIEMPO: James, you and I both know that there are many people on the Labor side of the House that think that the government's approach to this is absolutely appalling, but clearly they don't have enough say within the government. What do you really believe the driver behind this is? Is it as simple as trying to win seats in the outer suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne?
PATERSON: Sadly, I think it is a diminishing number of Labor MPs who feel that way. They're now a minority in their party and the bipartisanship that we used to have on Israel has broken down and that's really a great tragedy. And I think the reason is exactly what you've alluded to. It's a combination of inner city seats where the Greens are on the march and the Labor Party fears that they're going to lose more seats to them. And the second issue is when you have movements like the Muslim Votes Matter organisation, which is now threatening safe Labor seats in Western Sydney in particular, the Labor Party is being influenced by domestic politics and putting their own political interest ahead of the national interest. And that's a grossly irresponsible thing for any government to do and particularly for any Foreign Minister to do. And Penny Wong should be putting Australia's interests first, not the Labor Party's interests first.
CENATIEMPO: Yeah well exactly, that is the first role of any government. James, good to talk to you this morning. Thanks for your time.
ENDS
