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Transcripts
July 7, 2025
OLIVIA CAISLEY: Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson joins us now from Melbourne to discuss a very busy day, really, in national affairs. Let's go to the mushroom trial first, if you don't mind. This has obviously been a case that's captivated the nation. Is it something that you were following closely, and what did you make of the verdict today?
JAMES PATERSON: Good afternoon, Olivia, it's good to be with you. I perhaps wasn't following it as closely as some of the many devotees of the case out there were. As you say, it did capture not just national but international attention. All I can say about the verdict is that I hope it brings some small measure of comfort and justice to the families of the victims. It is a tragic thing that three people lost their lives and another person was almost killed in what really was a bizarre episode, and it is extraordinary to think that anyone would want to do that to their loved ones.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: Indeed. We've also heard the NT Coroner today handing down her findings in the coronial inquest into the death of Indigenous teenager Kumanjayi Walker. It's an inquest that's lasted three years, and one of her findings today was that she said she can't rule out whether racism was a factor. Have you followed that case, and does that concern you at all, that particular racism element?
JAMES PATERSON: Yes, I have followed the case as well, and again, this will be a difficult day for Kumanjayi Walker's family to find that his death was, in the view of the coroner, preventable. Of course, no person should die when they come into interaction with a police officer, and far too many Indigenous people die as a result of coming into contact with our justice system, whether it is in the community or whether it's in custody. My colleague, Senator Kerrynne Liddle, is our Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians and she's very carefully studying what is a more than 600-page report with dozens of recommendations, many of which are aimed at the Northern Territory Government and Northern Territory Police but some of which have federal implications and we'll be carefully studying both that and the response from the Northern Territory and federal governments.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: You were one of the people in the Coalition, and in fact, the party opposed the voice referendum, arguing it was divisive. We've heard from Indigenous Australians Minister Malarndirri McCarthy today, this morning, demonstrating an openness to a Federal truth-telling process, and that was one of three planks of the Uluru Statement of the Heart that included the voice. What is your view on that? Is that something you'd support looking into at a Federal level, or do you think it's something, I guess, best suited to the states and territories?
JAMES PATERSON: I saw the Minister's comments and I would be interested to know exactly what it is that she has in mind because, of course, the Albanese government did not take to the election a policy for a truth-telling or Makarrata process. In fact, when asked about this prior to the election and during the election campaign, they said it was a Liberal Party scare campaign to suggest that any element of the Uluru Statement from the Heart, including Voice, Treaty or Truth, was something that the Albanese government was committed to or was going to continue with in their second term. So I think it really is important from the Prime Minister, who has denied many times that he has any intention of pursuing these other elements of the Voice proposal, what exactly it is that the government has in mind, given that the Minister has opened the door here to pursuing this in their second term.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: OK, and I guess it is NADOC week as well. Does the Coalition have any particular policies that it wants to pursue when it comes to improving outcomes for Indigenous Australians? At the moment, just four of the 19 closing the gap targets are being met. And this is a continuing story that we've seen over successive governments. What does your side of politics want to do to try and shift the dial on what is really a damning result?
JAMES PATERSON: You're right, Olivia, it is a damning result and this is not something which lends itself easily to partisanship because, as you say, it has been under governments of both persuasions that Australia has collectively failed to achieve those targets, to advance the interests of Indigenous Australians and the welfare of Indigenous Australians, and I think frankly it is an unfinished national mission to improve the circumstance of Indigenous Australians. So we are very committed to reviewing all of our policies that we took to the election given the election result and it will be our task over the next term not just to hold the government to account for their performance in this area, which we will. But also to develop our own positive agenda for the advancement of the interests of Indigenous Australians at the next election and I'm very confident that Kerrynne Liddle our new Shadow Minister in the portfolio will be doing just that.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: There's obviously a huge suite of policies that are under review at the moment by the Coalition. Do you have any idea of timing about when Australians can expect to see the details of that analysis?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, we'll be going through an orthodox policy development process through this term, where we'll use the committees of the party room, of the Shadow Cabinet, and the Shadow Cabinet itself to determine what is the policy agenda that we'll take to the next election. Sussan Ley has rightly put up our entire agenda for review, because the defeat that we had was not just a close defeat, it was a comprehensive defeat. And that invites introspection and reflection, and really critically, a period of listening to the Australian people about what it is they want and expect from the Liberal and National parties at the next election. Now our values will be consistent and the same, but I think frankly one of our tasks is to make sure that the policies we take to the next elections are consistent with our values because not always in previous terms, including the last term, were our policies consistent with our values and I think that's why we let ourselves down in some instances.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: Sussan Ley, she has set up a dedicated working group to nut out one of the thorniest issues, I guess you could say, for the Coalition. So, net zero, climate targets, and that kind of thing. If, let's say, that particular group puts forward more progressive or, I guess, stronger climate targets or policies, are you concerned that, I guess, the majority of people within the Coalition, maybe even the Nationals, might stop you from moving forward? And then that could have a continued electoral effect whereby you continue to lose votes from women, Chinese Australians and younger Australians for that matter.
JAMES PATERSON: Look, I'm not concerned at all about that. In fact, I think it's a very healthy thing that we're having this review and that we will have this debate within the Liberal Party and within the Coalition parties, with the National Party as well. And I heard your previous guest, Matt Kean, say that there should be no debate within the Liberal Party on these matters. I couldn't more profoundly disagree with what he says. And I recognise Matt Kean is a political appointee of a Labor government, and he's got a task to do there. But the Liberal party cherishes debate. We will have an open, honest, and reflective debate about all of our policies, including on emissions reduction, to make sure that we deliver a reliable and affordable energy system for the Australian people that serves their interests and their needs.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: I also wanted to get your response to the arson attack on a synagogue in East Melbourne over the weekend. I wanted to get your view on the Prime Minister's decision to scrap the social cohesion envoy role. So that was, I guess, wasn't continued after the federal election. Do you think that was premature? Did it send the wrong message, perhaps considering we're continuing to see these kinds of incidents in the community?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, Peter Khalil fulfilled that role for the government prior to the last election. He's a colleague whom I've worked with closely and I have a high regard for, but I can't see what the outputs were of that role. I understand there was a FOI request about any reports that the Social Cohesion Envoy made, and there were none. He didn't report to the Prime Minister in any formal way during that period. And it's hard to see how social cohesion has been solved in this country, so I'm not sure what the Prime Minister's plan is to do that. I think it's very clear that we have an ongoing and profoundly serious antisemitism crisis in this country. That we have people in this country who believe it's appropriate to set fire to a synagogue for whatever motivation, and that will come out in due course, or who think it's appropriate to protest very vigorously outside Jewish-owned businesses and cause great distress to the staff and patrons inside, just shows how serious this problem is and why the Albanese government must take a very different approach in its second term to what it did on its first term. It must be much more proactive, ensure the law is enforced, ensure there are consequences for these perpetrators and that we have a comprehensive plan to address this cancer in our society.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: Well, the Coalition were very critical of the government's handling of antisemitism during the last term of parliament. Is the Coalition developing its own ideas, I guess, to clamp down on this issue, which obviously you take very seriously?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, in February, the Executive Council of Australian Jewry wrote to both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, and they set out 15 proposals or policy ideas to help address antisemitism. Peter Dutton committed to that, and Anthony Albanese never did. Sussan Ley, on behalf of the Coalition, has recommitted us to those 15 identified priorities from the ECAJ, and we think that it's really time for the Prime Minister and the government to show leadership here. This issue will continue to fester and get worse if it's not addressed and directly tackled head-on, and I want to see the government approach this with renewed vigour in this term, and if not, we will certainly be proposing our own ideas to resolve it.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: You're the former Shadow Home Affairs Minister, did you have any ideas about how potentially we could solve some of these fraying social cohesion issues in general, and I guess the impact of the conflict in the Middle East on Jewish and Palestinian Australians?
JAMES PATERSON: Look, this is a complex issue and there is not a silver bullet solution to any of it, but I think one of the most important things is that it be demonstrated there are consequences for the behaviour that we've seen, which we all agree is abhorrent and which we all condemn. It's very welcome to see the Minister for Home Affairs, for example, now visit the synagogue there in East Melbourne within 48 hours of that. That's a very different approach to what he took after the Adass Israel synagogue bombing last year, when it took him almost a week to show up, and it was an unpublicised visit with no press conference or let alone a social media post. So that's an improvement. But I want to see consequences flow for this behaviour. And frankly, I don't care whether it is a synagogue, a mosque, a church or any other place of worship. It is totally and utterly unacceptable in this country to terrorise people on the basis of their faith, and there must be material consequences for it.
OLIVIA CAISLEY: Senator Paterson, thank you very much for your time, really appreciate it.
JAMES PATERSON: Thanks, Olivia.
ENDS