Media
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March 17, 2022
LAURA JAYES: Joining me live now is Liberal Senator James Paterson. James, great to see you. We spoke to a former ambassador Geoff Raby on the program yesterday, who was uncharacteristically, I think, very critical of Xi Jinping's regime. He said that silence on this issue is equitable with being complicit. Do you agree with that?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Laura, I agree it was very, very uncharacteristic of Mr Raby, and if even someone like Mr Raby, who normally is quite comfortable defending the Chinese government,feels the need to criticise them, that is a real measure of how isolated their position has become internationally. And I think it's obvious because China is contradicting its own rhetoric. This is a country that speaks up for the sovereignty of states. This is a country that says it's committed to territorial integrity, and yet its actions belie those statements, and the world is watching very, very closely indeed. And if they continue to, as they appear to be, help Russia evade the consequences of sanctions and if they go even further and help them rearm or resupply Russia for its assault on the people of Ukraine, that will be judged very harshly by the world and swift action will have to follow.
JAYES: With China not imposing its own sanctions, doesn't that in and of itself help Russia evade sanctions from the West?
SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, it does, Laura. It would be much more powerful if the world acted in a more united way and if China joined so many other countries that have taken action against Russia to try and isolate Putin and his kleptocrats. It's very disappointing that they haven't done so, so far. There's still an opportunity for them to course correct. There's still an opportunity for them to live up to the values they espouse. And if they don't, I think not only the region, but the world will judge them for it.
JAYES: It's not just China, though,is it? There's still trading going on between China and Russia, two massive economies, but also deals done with the likes of Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia when it comes to the OPEC Plus deal that was struck just two weeks ago.
SENATOR PATERSON: Yes certainly Laura, we would like to see all countries take action. In fact, we saw at the UN just two weeks ago 141 countries, one of the highest vote tallies ever, voted to condemn Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. Only five countries voted against us and a handful or so abstained. Now given that strong statement of support you might like to see many of the countries that voted that way to send a rhetorical message, join in with the sanctions of other countries.Because what we're trying to do is raise the costs for Putin, force him tore-evaluate this course of action and to change the course of action. It is not too late to do so. And the more of us who put that collective pressure on, the more likely that will be the case. And we won't only be helping the people of Ukraine who deserve our support, but we will be helping people elsewhere in the world who have also faced threats of invasion or incursion from their large neighbours. And it's in all of our interests that if we want to maintain the peaceful status quo in the world and particularly in the Indo-Pacific, that we send a message to everyone who's watching it, there are very high costs for engaging in this sort of irresponsible, dangerous behaviour.
JAYES: We've seen further sanctions imposed on Russian billionaires. You've just been in London that has been right across all the headline news and in the newspapers. Roman Abramovich probably the most high-profile name in all of that. Australia has done its bit as well.We're creeping up these sanctions, but we haven't sanctioned two Russian billionaires that have stakes in energy companies here in Australia. Why not?
SENATOR PATERSON: Laura,I was very pleased when I was in London to see the very strong action that the UK government is taking because there's no question there's a lot of Russian money in London and they are in a better position than almost any other country in the world to enact costs for the kleptocrats. But as you say, we've got an important role to play too. And I know the government is looking at a number of additional cases for sanctions, including the people that you mentioned. We have already sanctioned 460 individuals and entities, including many kleptocrats close to Putin and Putin himself, as well as his National Security Council and the Russian Duma. So, there is no hesitation on our part to do that. We will do it. We do have to follow a process to make sure that it is legally robust and defendable. But watch this space.
JAYES: There is hesitation, though,because you have the capacity to go hard, as hard as you can with sanctions straight away, but we haven't done that. We've decided to take a ladder approach. Why? Haven't Russia been able to get around that? Get ahead of it sometimes?
SENATOR PATERSON: I don't think that's fair, Laura. I mean, when you talk about those two individuals,they were only sanctioned by the UK in the last couple of days, so we are not at all behind our allies –
JAYES: – well it's not a criticism of Australia. It's a criticism of how the West has chosen to impose sanctions by not going as hard as they can first.
SENATOR PATERSON: On the contrary, I'd say we've done some things to impose costs on Russia that we never previously would have done or even contemplated doing, like removing Russian banks from the SWIFT system and preventing the Russian Central Bank from exchanging its foreign exchange reserves. I mean, that is a very, very severe economic consequences for the Russian economy. It goes much further than traditional sanctions. It is effectively removing the Russian economy out of the international economic system, and that will bite very, very hard. And it really impinges on Russia's ability to rearm and resupply itself, and that will have a concrete impact on its ability to continue to prosecute this war against the people of Ukraine. Now, they are still vastly outnumbered in a conventional sense, and unfortunately, they face a foe that has no ethical boundaries at all and is willing to openly shell cities and civilians in order to achieve his objectives. So, it does require a very strong response from us, but I think we have delivered frankly a stronger one than I would have predicted we would only a month ago.
JAYES: James, just finally, before I let you go, Lindsey Graham says he hopes Vladimir Putin is assassinated. Do you disagree with that sentiment?
SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, look, I don't think it's appropriate to kind of publicly canvass the death of foreign leaders, even despicable ones like Mr Putin. But what I would say is I think he has made a vital strategic miscalculation here, and I think he has started the clock ticking on the end of his own leadership because this war is going very badly for Russia. It is hurting Russian people. It will result in the deaths of many Russian soldiers. And I think eventually the Russian people will not put up with that, and I think his own hold on power is very, very, very tenuous indeed. And I think it would be a good thing for the world if there's a change in Russia to a more responsible leadership that respects the sovereignty and the independence of its neighbours.
JAYES: James Paterson, welcome home. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it.
ENDS