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July 17, 2025
PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, the Prime Minister's big trip to China is nearing its end as he walked the Great Wall yesterday following his meeting with Xi Jinping in Beijing. Joining us live now is the Shadow Finance Minister James Paterson. Hello James, good to see you this morning. So let's start off with your thoughts on the trip so far and what, if anything, you think it's achieved.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, good morning, Pete. I guess the tangible outcomes at this stage are very hard to identify, but the opposition has provided bipartisan support for the Prime Minister's visit. It was particularly welcome that he was able to take a trade delegation with him to Shanghai, that he met with President Xi, and that he met with Premier Li. There are serious issues in the bilateral relationship between Australia and China, that it's good that the Prime Minister had the opportunity to raise those. I have to say, though, after reading Will Glasgow's coverage in The Australian this morning, but I do wonder whether a Gough Whitlam history tour on the Great Wall of China, whether a visit to Chengdu to pose with some pandas, and whether a hit of tennis is strictly necessary as part of a six-day visit to China when there is so much else at stake in our other international relationships around the world. And frankly, I have to say that some of this is starting to look a little bit indulgent.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, is that for us, though, or is that for them? Is that to show China that, you know, the Prime Minister is enjoying the country?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I hope it's not for the Prime Minister's personal enjoyment. And certainly on his previous trip to China, he made a big deal of recreating some of Gough Whitlam's previous visits, and he seems to be doing that again. I mean, the appropriate time to do a nostalgic history tour of Labor Party mythology, is after you retire, in your own time, at your own expense, not on the taxpayer dime. And not when you've gone more than 250 days after the US President was elected in failing to visit the United States and meet with the US President when we have profoundly serious issues at stake in that bilateral relationship as well, including potentially tariffs on one of our largest export industries to the United States, pharmaceuticals, and our most important international security agreement, AUKUS, under review and potentially in peril because of a failure of the Prime Minister to apply himself to that task, and a failure with the Prime Minister to establish a personal rapport with President Trump.
PETER STEFANOVIC: I do have some questions on the US, I'll get to those in a moment, but just back to China because much has been said about our stabilised relationship, but what sort of a relationship is it really when they won't even commit to giving us a heads up the next time they conduct live fire military drills in our region?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, on one level, Peter, it is welcome that the Prime Minister at least raised this issue with President Xi during this visit. When the incident actually occurred in February, the Prime Minister was very anxious to downplay the seriousness of it and imply that there was nothing to see here at all. Of course, it was a serious breach of our relationship. It is not ok to conduct a live firing exercise underneath civilian flight paths without providing any notice, and we would not behave that way. And so I'm pleased the Prime Minister raised it, but it is troubling to see that President Xi was dismissive about this, and that the People's Liberation Army Navy can be expected to conduct more live firing exercises like this in the future in our region without notice.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, just like it does around the Philippines, Vietnam, we can expect more of that to happen now?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Or indeed around Taiwan. We've seen a really significant escalation of military exercises around Taiwan in a way that should be troubling to all Australians because what we believe in is the preservation of the peaceful status quo across the Taiwan Straits. And it is critically important that the Prime Minister, I hope, has used the opportunity of meeting with China's leaders during this visit to reaffirm that with absolute clarity and unambiguously.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Let's get to the U.S. now. I am very curious about our relationship with the United States at the moment because the man who really holds AUKUS in his hands, Elbridge Colby, has met up with a number of countries from our region lately. So you've got the Philippines, South Korea, PNG as well. He gave a robust defence of Japan overnight. And I asked Richard Marles about this earlier in the program, and Marles said, Well, I deal with Hegseth, which is true to a point, but. Does there not seem to be an issue with our American friends right now?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, I'm not sure that patronising the reviewer of AUKUS is the best way to go if you want to continue the agreement and save the agreement from the chopping block. I've met with Bridge Colby on my previous trips to the United States, prior to him taking up this role with the administration. He is an immensely influential figure intellectually in the Republican Party at the moment and within the Trump administration. He is particularly close to Vice President Vance, and we know that President Trump very much listens to what he has to say when it comes to security and America's international relationships. So he holds the pen on what the Pentagon will recommend in relation to AUKUS, and I would think that an all-out diplomatic charm offensive not just with Bridge Colby, but his boss and the White House and the President would be what is called for. But right now the Prime Minister doesn't seem to have any sense of urgency about this at all. And I'm worried that this appears to be calculated neglect, not just accidental, not just indifference, but this appears be calculated. The Prime Minister, perhaps out of some misguided belief that there's a domestic political advantage for him in keeping a distance with the Trump administration, is neglecting our most important security relationship at a most perilous time.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Do you think Mr. Colby was deliberately agitating us, though, with that request to commit our subs, to help the United States in any future defence of Taiwan, knowing that we couldn't answer, particularly as the Prime Minister was in China?
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Well, some of the media reporting has speculated that Mr. Colby has made this demand of Australia that we publicly pre-commit to a particular course of action in the event of a hypothetical Taiwan contingency. I don't believe that's the case. I believe our task is to reassure our American friends that we are their most reliable ally. And frankly, that's an easy thing to do, given our track record and given our history. There is no major conflict since the federation of Australia over 100 years ago that the United States has fought without Australians by their side, whether that's in the Indo-Pacific, like Korea or Vietnam, or further afield in the first Gulf War, or Iraq, or Afghanistan. No other U.S. ally has been as dependable and as loyal as Australia. And the modern U.S.-Australia relationship is incredibly deep and incredibly important to the Americans. Just look at intelligence facilities like Pine Gap, which could not be replicated anywhere near as effectively anywhere else in the world, were it not where it is. Or indeed Submarine Rotational Force West in Western Australia, which gives the United States Navy access to the Indian Ocean in a secure way, far from their shores. I mean, these are really important equities. We have a really good case to make. But if you're not there in person with the President making the arguments, then it won't be heard.
PETER STEFANOVIC: Alright, James Paterson, good to see you this morning, thanks again, we'll talk to you next week.
ENDS