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Transcripts
July 27, 2026
SALLY SARA: James Paterson is the Shadow Minister for Defence, Victorian Liberal Senator, and joins me now. James Paterson, welcome back to Breakfast.
SENATOR JAMES PATERSON: Good morning.
SARA: Let's start with the Middle East. In recent days, Yemen's Houthi rebels have claimed responsibility for missile attacks on Saudi Arabian cities. It's also announced a maritime blockade on Saudi vessels. Do you feel reassured by the federal government's promises that Australia's fuel supply, quote, "continues to be solid and secure."
PATERSON: Well, I think what we've learnt over the last few months is that as long as we're willing to pay very high prices then access to refined fuels and crude oil can be guaranteed because this is an international market and it is a global price and the flow of oil and petrol and diesel will continue for those who are willing to pay the price. But that is cold comfort for Australians who bear that cost at the petrol bowser who are finding it really hard to make ends meet because their cost of living is rising in so many other areas. And so while it's good that we're unlikely to face a literal shortage in Australia, that doesn't mean it doesn't have a real consequence for families and the economy.
SARA: The US has imposed a 12.5% tariff on Australian goods after a US trade investigation into forced labour and international supply chains. In your view, is this move by the US justified?
PATERSON: No, it's unjustified. Australia is not a haven of slave labour produced goods, and it's inconsistent with the spirit and the letter, in my view, of our free trade agreement and the partnership that we have with the United States, which is very deep and very sincere and very important, and I'd really hope that the administration reconsiders applying tariffs like these to countries like Australia.
SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Shadow Minister for Defence, James Paterson. You've made a visit to the US and met with senior officials at the Pentagon. What did they have to say about how the AUKUS Defence Pact, which is designed to deliver nuclear submarines to Australia is operating?
PATERSON: I'm a little bit constrained because some of these meetings were private one-on-one meetings in secure facilities, but speaking generally, the sentiment towards Australia, and the sentiment towards the Alliance, and the sentiment towards AUKUS from the US system is very positive. They've had their very well publicised review about AUKUS, and they've made an active decision to proceed with AUKUS. And so the focus is now delivering. The focus is on delivering under Pillar 2, those other advanced capabilities and, of course, critically delivering those nuclear-powered submarines to Australia. I also visited the shipyards where the Virginia-class submarines are made at Newport News and saw some of the progress that's being made. But everybody acknowledges there is more work to be done on increasing the submarine production rates to make them where we all want them to be.
SARA: According to a report in nine newspapers, the United States has scrapped a program to build ships that can be operated either crewed or uncrewed. Australia was planning to acquire some of these vessels. Where does this development leave us in your view?
PATERSON: I think we need to think very carefully about whether or not we want to proceed with this program in light of this decision, but also in light of the fact that if a surface vessel has to be both crewed and uncrewed, then all else being equal, it's going to be more expensive and complicated to operate rather than a vessel which is purely crewed or purely uncrewed. The United Kingdom is also moving towards a force structure that has a crewed vessel supported by a number of uncrewed vessels. And I think there's real merit in that. And I hope the government is looking at it closely.
SARA: Looking at politics, Angus Taylor has ruled out a coalition with One Nation earlier this month. Your colleague, Andrew Bragg, has made some comments about it this morning on the Today Show. Let's take a listen.
[CLIP START]
ANDREW BRAGG: Elections are every three years, you don't need to decide who your preference is now. That's a decision for later.
SAM ARMYTAGE: I'm not talking about preferences, I'm talking about a coalition.
ANDREW BRAGG: Well we'll work out, if there needs to be a coalition, we'd work it out then, but we won't be in a coalition with the unions and the big super funds and all the other crooks.
[CLIP END]
SARA: What do you think about that?
PATERSON: I think Angus Taylor's made the position of the Liberal Party very clear. My assessment is it's widely supported by colleagues. We have one coalition partner already, which is the National Party, our traditional coalition partner, and we are not in the market for any other coalition partners. What we seek from the Australian people as a mandate to govern in that traditional coalition.
SARA: So you disagree with the way that Andrew Bragg has characterised it there?
PATERSON: Well, I'd be surprised if Andrew Bragg is advocating for a coalition with One Nation. That's not my understanding of his views. I think he made the sensible point that we'll work out our preferences in the normal time and the normal way closer to the election.
SARA: Let's turn to your home state of Victoria. We are hearing reports that the Premier Jacinta Allan is likely to face a leadership challenge. Would you be pleased if she were dumped as Premier in favour of her Deputy, Ben Carroll?
PATERSON: Well, it sounds like the factional bosses have finally caught up with the sentiment of Victorians, which is they want this Premier gone. But in my view, it's too little, too late. And a shift of horse at this very late minute to a new premier is not going to change anything fundamentally, particularly because Ben Carroll was Jacinta Allan's Deputy Premier. He participated in every decision this government has made over the last few years. He was even a cabinet minister under Daniel Andrews. So he backed in decisions not to call a Royal Commission into the build corruption scandal and the $15 billion of taxpayers' money which was stolen, he couldn't even preside over a successful VCE exams process as Education Minister. So I really think at this late stage, it won't change much, as Victorians clearly want a change of government.
SARA: When we're looking at the opinion polls at the moment, is the Opposition Leader Jess Wilson, is she likely to be in a position to win the election in her own right or will she have to perhaps consider a coalition with One Nation?
PATERSON: Jess Wilson is overwhelmingly the preferred Premier in Victoria, and I think that is evidence that Victorians want a fresh start, they want a new government, and they know that she's the only person putting forward a plan to actually change Victoria. It's very good to say you want change, but if you don't have a leader, a candidate, or policies, you can't actually deliver change in government. And Jess is focused on bringing down crime, bringing down costs and delivering a government that actually works for Victorians.
SARA: Just finally, very briefly, what did you make of, you were listening into Ed Husic earlier, what did you make of his comments?
PATERSON: Well, I respect Ed for his honesty and his sincerity and the fact that he pursues his honest beliefs very genuinely, but I find it very difficult to understand why the Australian Labor Party National Conference now no longer believes that Hamas should be disarmed. They previously said this terrorist organisation should be disarmed. They now no longer think they should do so, and no explanation has been provided as to why we'd now no longer think it's a good thing for the terrorist organisation responsible for the 7th October atrocities to be disarmed.
SARA: James Paterson, thank you for joining me this morning.
PATERSON: Thank you for having me.
ENDS